JTT
 
  -2  
Mon 2 May, 2011 06:18 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Politics makes for strange bedfellows but it seems that making apologies for war crimes/war criminals makes even stranger bedfellows.
JTT
 
  0  
Mon 2 May, 2011 09:36 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I think it is a continuation of the Bush policy to hunt him down,


Did you see the time, Okie, when Porter Goss laughed at Bush when Bush said that he thinks everyday about ways to capture OBL?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Mon 2 May, 2011 09:36 pm
@JTT,
JTT, I think I am accurate to point out that there are not many folks around that buy into your views about the United States being as terrible as you believe. You are entitled to your beliefs, but be aware that the bulk of evidence runs counter to your apparent beliefs, and so do the opinions of most reasonable Americans, even the liberal or left leaning portion of this country's population.

I would advise you to educate yourself about history, and honestly admit to yourself who has actually perpetrated most of the atrocities around the world. They have mostly been radial leftists, such as Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, and others like them. In contrast, the United States has been largely a force for good, and we have always been front and center to provide aid and relief to the distressed. Reagan aptly said, "America is a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere." JTT, this is a country that peoples from all over the world have aspired to emulate and to immigrate to.
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 2 May, 2011 10:09 pm
@okie,
Quote:
JTT, this is a country that peoples from all over the world have aspired to emulate and to immigrate to.


Throughout history, people have always flocked to those countries where they had a chance to better themselves economically. It's no great surprise that some head to the US. You act like there are only people who leave their homelands and go to the US, but your ignorance is understandable - you're American.

Quote:
In contrast, the United States has been largely a force for good, and we have always been front and center to provide aid and relief to the distressed.


Really, Okie? That guy you mentioned, that Reagan guy, the one who led you gullible idiots like sheep to slaughter - he saw to the slaughter of 40 to 50 thousand Nicaraguans.

Here's your Reagan and the "force for good";

Quote:

THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA:

part II

CIA COVERT OPERATIONS IN CENTRAL AMERICA, CIA MANIPULATION OF THE PRESS, CIA EXPERIMENTATION ON THE U.S. PUBLIC

by John Stockwell

a lecture given in October, 1987

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html

Nicaragua is not the biggest covert action, it is the most famous one. Afghanistan is, we spent several hundred million dollars in Afghanistan. We've spent somewhat less than that, but close, in Nicaragua....

[When the U.S. doesn't like a government], they send the CIA in, with its resources and activists, hiring people, hiring agents, to tear apart the social and economic fabric of the country, as a technique for putting pressure on the government, hoping that they can make the government come to the U.S.'s terms, or the government will collapse altogether and they can engineer a coup d'etat, and have the thing wind up with their own choice of people in power.

Now ripping apart the economic and social fabric of course is fairly textbook-ish. What we're talking about is going in and deliberately creating conditions where the farmer can't get his produce to market, where children can't go to school, where women are terrified inside their homes as well as outside their homes, where government administration and programs grind to a complete halt, where the hospitals are treating wounded people instead of sick people, where international capital is scared away and the country goes bankrupt. If you ask the state department today what is their official explanation of the purpose of the Contras, they say it's to attack economic targets, meaning, break up the economy of the country. Of course, they're attacking a lot more.

To destabilize Nicaragua beginning in 1981, we began funding this force of Somoza's ex-national guardsmen, calling them the contras (the counter-revolutionaries). We created this force, it did not exist until we allocated money. We've armed them, put uniforms on their backs, boots on their feet, given them camps in Honduras to live in, medical supplies, doctors, training, leadership, direction, as we've sent them in to de-stabilize Nicaragua. Under our direction they have systematically been blowing up graineries, saw mills, bridges, government offices, schools, health centers. They ambush trucks so the produce can't get to market. They raid farms and villages. The farmer has to carry a gun while he tries to plow, if he can plow at all.

If you want one example of hard proof of the CIA's involvement in this, and their approach to it, dig up `The Sabotage Manual', that they were circulating throughout Nicaragua, a comic-book type of a paper, with visual explanations of what you can do to bring a society to a halt, how you can gum up typewriters, what you can pour in a gas tank to burn up engines, what you can stuff in a sewage to stop up the sewage so it won't work, things you can do to make a society simply cease to function.

Systematically, the contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators. You remember the assassination manual? that surfaced in 1984. It caused such a stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror. This is a technique that they're using to traumatize the society so that it can't function.


This is a classic example of the US as a force for good, Okie. The scenario has been repeated over and over for over a century.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 05:58 am
Words Obama would never say.

The American Dream is obtained by hard work, resilience, and determination...not a government handout.
Let those who try and succeed, succeed. Let those who try and fail, try again. Let those who do not try, fail.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  3  
Wed 4 May, 2011 06:00 am
and let the disabled , those unemployed because their jobs were sent overseas, senior citizens and children starve in the ******* street. Tough old world. You forgot that part Dr. Mengele.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 06:14 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
Let those who try and fail, try again. Let those who do not try, fail.
Let the people and families take care of their own.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 06:44 am
I wonder how you'd feel about that if you needed help and there was no way to get it from family of friends. I also don't care.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 06:48 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
Rolling Eyes Drunk Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Wed 4 May, 2011 09:44 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
Some people can't see how our generation was "helped" by our government to create the strongest economy in the world.

I'm not ashamed to admit our family received welfare from our government when we were children, because our mother had to care for four children without a father.

That was a time when many families suffered, but the government stepped in and helped feed, shelter, and clothe us - even if they were poverty level assistance.

My older brother graduated from law school, and became an Administrative Judge in California. My younger brother finished med school, and became a Ophthalmologist and politician in California. My sister became an RN. I got my degree in Accounting, and did pretty well.

We have all contributed to our society through our taxes, our service in the military (except for our sister), and raised some great kids who are now in the professions.

America is no longer the kind of America we grew up in. The republicans are destroying this country with their spending and tax cuts.

That's the reason why so many of our college graduates today are having difficulty finding jobs, and many still live at home with their parents.

Their future stinks.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Wed 4 May, 2011 09:47 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
Given the amount of time allwet spends on these boards, he either has a source of income not dependent upon work or he is in an institution.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 09:48 am
@plainoldme,
POM hasn't been wet for decades.
Gargamel
 
  0  
Wed 4 May, 2011 11:39 am
@H2O MAN,
You have a flat, fleshy area where on most human males there is a penis.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 11:44 am
@Gargamel,
Please remove it from your mouth
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
That was a time when many families suffered, but the government stepped in and helped feed, shelter, and clothe us - even if they were poverty level assistance.

Your state is very generous towards the needy (and really generous to the not-so-needy).

A $458K public exec gets $1.2 million housing loan

And since public transit authorities receive federal funds, I (and others who don't live in your state, but pay federal income tax) get to help pay for his loan, as well.



Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:03 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
That was a time when many families suffered, but the government stepped in and helped feed, shelter, and clothe us - even if they were poverty level assistance.

Your state is very generous towards the needy (and really generous to the not-so-needy).

A $458K public exec gets $1.2 million housing loan

And since public transit authorities receive federal funds, I (and others who don't live in your state, but pay federal income tax) get to help pay for his loan, as well.


Well, let's be fair. This is the sort of pay that your side says CEOs and executives SHOULD get paid. I suppose you could respond by saying 'that's only for private industry,' but it affects public industry as well; you can't attract the talent that you need to run your organizations if the private sector pays 10x as much, with better perks.

At least, that's the justification for exorbitant CEO and exec. pay that I've seen coming from the right for years....

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Partisanship aside (and, for the record, I don't 'have a side'), do you think this guy who earns $458K annually (and he may be worth every penny) should have his housing loan subsidized by the taxpayers?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:17 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Partisanship aside (and, for the record, I don't 'have a side'), do you think this guy who earns $458K annually (and he may be worth every penny) should have his housing loan subsidized by the taxpayers?


Well no, I don't think that at all. But it's an artifact of CEO and exec. compensation in this company. High private sector paychecks drag public sector ones upwards.

I don't think any of those bastards are worth the money that they have set the system up to give to them.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  2  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think any of those bastards are worth the money that they have set the system up to give to them.

I think most governors in this country make about half (or less) than transit guy. The sherrif of that county probably made no where near that, but would be worth more, I'd think. Alas, he probably has to pay for his own mortgage. And transit guy, believe it or not, isn't the worst offender.

It all adds up. I guess I'd rather see some of that money going to hire more firemen...more law enforcement...or rehiring some of those 20,000 laid off teachers.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 4 May, 2011 12:45 pm
Didn't Obama say he wanted fairness for all? ST6 members get paid about $54K per year and they are the ones that got Osama.
 

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