Obama '08?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Boehner is now speaker of the house. God save us!

He just did!

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@realjohnboy,

It is out of Obamacare. The Dems pulled away from it when the "death panel" argument was made.

Now the Obama administration is making an end run by inserting it in Medicare regulations.

With a Republican House, we can expect to see many more end runs via regulation.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

It is officially now out of the regulations but still can be talked about...unless specifically prohibited. Isn't/wasn't there some sort of outlawing of any mention of abortion in certain situations? I honestly can say I don't recall if that is true or not.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Anyway, it appears from an article in the NYTimes yesterday
and on NPR today that the Obama admin has reversed course.

So, if I read it right, Obama and his democrats lied to the American
people and now they are playing a childish game of semantics.

How in the hell can Obama reverse course and remove death panels
from Obamacare after telling everyone that they were never there?

What's next, will Obama and his democrats reverse course and
admit Sarah Palin was right about death panels in Obamacare?

No wonder Americans don't trust Obama and his democrats.

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You may recall that the 1st mention made of voluntary advance care conversations between beneficiaries and doctors shows up in a Medicare bill signed by President Bush. That bill authorized recipients to get one and only one covered physical rather than the annual physical by the new health care law.

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@realjohnboy,

How does any of that justify the lies Obama and his democrats used to sell Obamacare to the American people?

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@H2O MAN,

How does any of that justify the lies about " Obama's death panels" or euthanasia for grandma to defeat Obamacare to the American people?

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@realjohnboy,

The real issues about the "end of life counseling" first came up during Bush's regime and it passed with no flourishes. Now, since the GOP had a chance to elevate the rhetoric by lies and more lies, they couldnt let America remember .
I think the GOP wants to believe that we are all really sheep with no minds of our own. Maybe thats why they have all these litmus tests to be a GOP .

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@realjohnboy,

You're not going to get an answer from waterboy; he's all wet behind the ears - like a ten year old.

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Actually it was me who brought up the wrongly labeled "death panels" up yesterday.

Quote:

In Fact, The Regulations Provide Compensation To Doctors For Performing Voluntary Counseling
New Regulations Simply Provide Reimbursement For "Voluntary" End-Of-Life Counseling. According to the new regulations put forward by CMS, Medicare will provide compensation for "[v]oluntary advance care planning upon agreement with the individual." The regulations further define the planning services as voluntary:

Voluntary advance care planning means, for purposes of this section, verbal or written information regarding the following areas:

(i) An individual's ability to prepare an advance directive in the case where an injury or illness causes the individual to be unable to make health care decisions.

(ii) Whether or not the physician is willing to follow the individual's wishes as expressed in an advance directive. [Federal Register, 11/29/10]

source

Federal Register / Vol. 75, No. 228 / Monday, November 29, 2010 / Rules and Regulations

So you are saying the harmless phrase "phrase voluntary advance planning" has been dropped. I take leave doubt anything without any kind of official source. But if it has, no big deal since all the rule does is provide compensation for doctors who provided voluntary end of life counselling.

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@revelette,

I've given a copy of my advance directive to my wife and physician. It's for the purpose of letting me die of natural causes, and not spending money or the hospital's limited resources to try to save me for another few days of no-quality life.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

It's the left that's telling lies about death panels being in Obamacare.
Again: how can they announce they a taking out something they said was never in?

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@H2O MAN,

How does he figure that? It was Sarah who was one of the first to introduce the fraze on TV.

SPurt must be part of the "big Lie committee" of the RNC

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@revelette,

Thanks, revelette. I printed out the NYT article from last night. Since then, NPR and other media have clarified things about the law and the implementing regulations (one time physical vs annual covered physicals; separate visits for the actual physical vs a separate visit for the voluntary advance option discussion, etc).
It is more than a bit confusing and I realize that there are those here who are too lazy to actually research it.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Try factcheck.org to read the language of Sec 203 starting on page 95. I thought you said you had read the bill. Perhaps that was someone else.

Provide evidence that what you claim for Sec 203 starting on page 95 is an accurate claim.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

I realize that there are those here who are too ashamed to
admit Obama and his democrats lied about death panels.

You left wing nuts need to own up to your mistakes.

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@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Provide evidence that what you claim for Sec 203 starting on page 95 is an accurate claim.

Please refer to Sec 203 starting on page 95 of the Health Care Bill.

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@realjohnboy,

ican can only copy and paste information from conservative media sources; he still hasn't figured out that they use great imagination to expand and interpret laws and the constitution in ways they can only comprehend.

Even if you copied and pasted from the original health bill, he'll see ACORN.

1 Reply

Quote:

http://sandrarose.com/2009/11/george-soros-plot-to-create-a-new-world-order-through-the-destruction-of-the-us-economy/
Highlights from video of Soros's interview in case you don’t have time to watch it yourselves:

“…an orderly decline of the dollar is desirable”

“It’s ill-considered on the part of the United States to resist…”

“It is not necessarily in our interests to have the dollar as the sole world currency.”

“A decline in the value of the dollar is necessary in order to compensate for the fact that the U.S. economy will remain rather weak…”

“China will emerge as the motor replacing the U.S. consumer..”

“China will be the engine driving (the New World Order) forward, and the U.S. will be actually a drag that’s being pulled along through a gradual decline in the value of the dollar.”

Quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
Year.......FEDERAL RECEIPTS
1980......$0.517 trillion [CARTER]
1988….…$0.909 trillion [REAGAN]
1992.......$1.091 trillion [BUSH41]
2000......$2.025 trillion [CLINTON]
2008......$2.521 trillion [BUSH43]
2010.......$2.931 trillion [OBAMA] as of November 2010

Year.......FEDERAL OUTLAYS
1980.......$0.591 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$1.064 trillion [REAGAN] average annual increase = 0.059 trillion
1992........$1.382 trillion [BUSH41] average annual increase = 0.080 trillion
2000.......$1.789 trillion [CLINTON] average annual increase = 0.051 trillion
2008.......$2.931 trillion [BUSH43] average annual increase = 0.143 trillion
2010........$3.399 trillion [OBAMA] as of November 2010 average annual increase for 1.917 years = 0.244 trillion

Year………GROSS FEDERAL DEBT
1980.......$0.909 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$2.601 trillion [REAGAN] average annual increase = 0.2115 trillion
1992........$4.002 trillion [BUSH41] average annual increase = 0.3503 trillion
2000.......$5.629 trillion [CLINTON] average annual increase = 0.2034 trillion
2008.......$9.654 trillion [BUSH43] average annual increase = 0.5031trillion
2010.......$10.954 trillion [OBAMA] as of November 2010, average annual increase for 1.917 years = 0.678 trillion

Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 million [CARTER]
1988…………… 115 million [REAGAN]
1992…………….118 million [BUSH41]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] as of November 2010

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.2 [OBAMA] as of November 2010

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

I requested you, realjohnboy, to provide evidence that what you claim for Sec 203 starting on page 95 is an accurate claim. In particular, I requested your link to that evidence.