Obama '08?

@okie,

Quote:

I grew up on a farm from the time I was born until I entered college at age 18.

If you grew up on a farm okie, did it have a barn?
Did you have cows in your barn?
I doubt it because you don't seem to know how barns are used.

I grew up on a farm that DID have cows and a barn. I milked cows twice a day from the age of 7 to about 16. I planted corn, wheat and baled hay. Which of those did you do on the farm you grew up on?

Some questions for you okie... along with my answers

How many cows did you milk per day growing up? for me about 30 twice a day.
How many acres of hay did your family have under tillage? What did you use to bale the hay? We put up about 100- 120 acres of alfalfa, another 5-10 0r so of prairie grass. Cut with an Owatonna swather. Raked once or more depending on weather. Baled with an IH square baler and a skid. Also baled the straw from the wheat crop.

It's funny that you say you grew up on a farm but didn't say what kind of farm. What kind of farm was it okie? I grew up on a dairy and grain farm. How many acres was the farm? We owned 3/4 of a section. (rented more.) I'm sure you can figure out the acres.

Growing up in the country isn't the same thing as growing up on a farm okie. I get the impression you just grew up in the country.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Democrats will be the ruin of this country.

Nah, they're too late. The republicans got at it first. Just think of the level of hell Dante would assign joe mccarthy to.

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@plainoldme,

POMade, you are incorrect one again.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

The current recession began in December 2007. Bush was president and the Democrats controlled both houses of congress.

Bush repeatedly pleaded with the Congress to fix Fannie and Freddie before they had done severe damage to the economy. These Democrats refused.

Obama also has refused in 2009 - 2010 to fix Fannie and Freddie.

Quote:

BUSH’S EFFORTS TO SOLVE FANNIE AND FREDDIE PROBLEM
2007
*06/23—Two Bear Sterns hedge fund groups collapse due to their mortgage investments.
*08/09— President Bush requests Congress pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*12/06— President Bush warns Congress of need to pass legislation reforming GSEs.

2008
*03/14—J.P. Morgan and the Federal Reserve recognize extent of Bear’s toxic assets, including sub-prime mortgages, and credit default swaps, and interconnection with other banks.
*03/14—At Economic Club of New York, President Bush requests Congress take action and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*04/14—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/03—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/19—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/31—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*06/06—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*07/11—Senator Chris Dodd says: "There’s sort of a panic going on today, and that’s not what ought to be. The facts don’t warrant that reaction, in my opinion … Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were never bottom feeders in the residential mortgage market. People ought to feel comfortable about that. "

Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 million [CARTER]
1988…………… 115 million [REAGAN]
1992…………….118 million [BUSH41]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] (as of September 2010 and not final year of term)

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.5 [OBAMA] (as of September 2010 and not final year of term)

[/quote]

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

POMade, you are incorrect one again.

And my spelling was incorrect once again Laughing

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In THE SOVEREIGN INDIVIDUAL, James Dale Davidson and Lord William Rees-Mogg, on pages 338 & 339, in 1997, wrote:

Straight Commission
Today, politicians bent on optimizing votes have little incentive to analyze problems coherentlly [according to Pelosi, Congress and the President did not even read the healthcare bill before it was passed and signed]. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that their records in actually solving problems are so pathetic as compared to entrpreneurs, business executives, and coaches of sport teams. who are rewarded according to performance. Performance-based compensation for legislators would not make everyone chosen at random as effective as Lee Kuan Yew. But paying leaders on the basis of their performance is just a logical extension of Lee's successful "Flexiwage" program in Singapore, which pays government employees on the basis of real growth of the Singapore economy. There is every reason to believe that performance would be greatly enhanced if the pay of legislators and executives were keyed to some objective measure of performance, such as the growth of after-tax per capita income. Pay them on the basis of performance, and the chance that they would perform would increase a thousandfold.

The gain to society from policies that improve real income net of taxes could be huge. Why not pay prime ministers and presidents even a tiny share of the gain that their policies promote? The funding for such payments could be collected by a small unobtrusive tax. Such an arrangement would free society from the threat it now faces from ambitious men with specialized political talent like Tichard Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Messianic Personalities[/u]
Too little attention has been paid to the fact that electoral politics lures disordered, messianic personalities into positions of power. Such persons existed, and often posed serious threats to social order even in agrarian societies before the emergence of democratic political systems. Reviewing the careers of Eudo de Stell, the Breton Christ, Adelbert in the eighth century, Eon in the eleventh, Tanchelm of Antwerp, Melchior Hoffman, and Bernt Rothmann and their ilk, several points stand out. The more immediately obvious their political talents seem to be, the greater damage they appear to have inflicted. Because the state was not engaged in organizing widespread systematic coercion, these early protopoliticians frequently took it upon themselves to rob and loot in order to obtain cash to distribute to their followers among the poor.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
I grew up on a farm from the time I was born until I entered college at age 18.

If you grew up on a farm okie, did it have a barn?
Did you have cows in your barn?
I doubt it because you don't seem to know how barns are used.

You can doubt all you want, but it only makes me more suspicious of your claims. I will assume you are telling the truth about your experience however, and will answer your questions honestly. Our farm did have a barn, in fact an old fashioned 2 story barn, attached to a pole barn that we built. Besides that, we had a chicken house, a grainery, and other buildings. We milked the cows in the attached pole barn. By the way, we milked the cows the old fashioned way, by hand. The 2 story barn had a second story loft that we stored hay in. The bottom part also housed hay part of the time, as well as other things like cow feed and so forth. Sometimes if we had a small calves that needed more shelter, we would keep them in there for a short time with the mother cow until they got old enough to do okay outside.

Quote:

I grew up on a farm that DID have cows and a barn. I milked cows twice a day from the age of 7 to about 16. I planted corn, wheat and baled hay. Which of those did you do on the farm you grew up on?

Interesting. I hope you did not make that stuff up. You claim to have milked cows from the age of 7? With a milking machine or by hand? And where was your farm, parados? And you claim you planted corn and wheat and also baled hay. I hope not from the age of 7, because running a baler is not safe work for a small kid.

In regard to your question about what I did, I milked cows, by hand, I learned to drive the tractor at about age 12, and after that I did most everything that could be done with a tractor and machinery, including plowing, cultivating, springtoothing, mowing hay, raking hay, drilling or planting wheat and hay crops, also barley and oats. We also gathered hay bales and physically bucked the bales onto trailers or trucks and took them into the barns to be stored, and bucked the bales into the barns. I also helped build fences, including digging post holes, stretching the wire and stapling it. I never ran a baler, nor did I ever drive a combine to cut wheat. The guy I worked for insisted upon doing that job himself, but he did have my brother do some wheat cutting. I was relegated to driving the truck with grain to the elevator, plus pulling equipment out of the mud during harvest with a standby tractor.

Quote:

Some questions for you okie... along with my answers
How many cows did you milk per day growing up? for me about 30 twice a day.
How many acres of hay did your family have under tillage? What did you use to bale the hay? We put up about 100- 120 acres of alfalfa, another 5-10 0r so of prairie grass. Cut with an Owatonna swather. Raked once or more depending on weather. Baled with an IH square baler and a skid. Also baled the straw from the wheat crop.

We usually milked from 1 to about 4 cows. We did not milk cows as a dairy operation, we only milked cows for our own use of the milk mostly, although we did sell some milk by the gallon to a few customers from town. This all changed as milking became more automated, so that bulk tanks were then just coming in and became standard, wherein the dairy processing companies came and picked up the milk from your tanks. Our family farm and my experience happened at the tail end of the old way of doing things.

I forgot to say anything about the hay baling, we did not own a baler, so we always had it custom baled into small bales. Later after I left home, my stepdad had big round bales done, and mostly stacked in the field for use later.

Quote:

It's funny that you say you grew up on a farm but didn't say what kind of farm. What kind of farm was it okie? I grew up on a dairy and grain farm. How many acres was the farm? We owned 3/4 of a section. (rented more.) I'm sure you can figure out the acres.

It isn't funny at all, and in fact I think I have mentioned it before. What is funny is that you just now claim to have grown up on a farm, which is a first for you that I have ever heard. In fact, I have some doubt, as you do not think like a farm boy, not at all.
Our farm was primarily wheat, but we had about half of it in grass and we ran some cattle. We raised some hay for the cattle, mostly sudan hay. We had two farms actually, a quarter and an 80, totalling 240 acres. We did not rent any more land than that. My stepdad worked at the cattle auction barn to supplement our farm income, and my Mom worked in town at a dime store for many years. As I have already told you, I worked summers for a bigger farmer, that farmed about 2,000 acres, most of it rented.

Quote:

Growing up in the country isn't the same thing as growing up on a farm okie. I get the impression you just grew up in the country.

I agree there is a big difference between being on a farm and in the country, but I grew up on a farm, okay. And as I have already said, I find it curious you are just now claiming to have grown up on a farm doing all of that stuff, when you have never offered that before, even though I have talked often about my farm experiences as a kid, and knowing farmers and all of that. I have to admit that I am skeptical of your claims for that reason, plus you don't think like a typical farm kid, as most never turn out to be flaming liberals as you seem to be one. I am being honest when I express my skepticism, but for now I will take what you say as the apparent truth, and see what more you have to offer. I would like to know where your farm was, at least what state and area of the state, and whether you had irrigation or not. Our farm was in northern Oklahoma, all dryland farming with no irrigation. We depended upon Mother Nature, and we were also at the mercy of Mother Nature.

It is interesting this subject is being hashed out between us, as the subject is supposed to be Obama. However, I think this is important, because it will perhaps help establish where you got your liberal ideas, parados, and whether you are being honest about what you are now claiming? I hope so, because if you actually did grow up on a farm, maybe we have found something we can talk about in common? I would consider that to be a virtual miracle given your extreme views!

2 Replies

@okie,

I find your claim about milking cows from the age of 7 , interesting, parados, because I now have a grandson that turned 7. I would no way give him the responsibility of milking cows. In the first place, he would be too young for it to be safe for him. Secondly, there are plenty of other things that a kid aged 7 can do, without giving him a job that would be unsafe and too much for him to do. I don't know if you milked cows by hand, but a 7 year old kid probably would not yet have hands big and strong enough to do it, and if it was done by milking machine, unless the milking machines have been replaced by an assembly line type of arrangement, they would be too heavy for a kid that age. Even an assembly line type of setup would still be too much for a 7 year old kid in my opinion, although I could be wrong. Remember, I grew up in the late 40's, the 50's, and early 60's.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

What is funny is that you just now claim to have grown up on a farm, which is a first for you that I have ever heard. In fact, I have some doubt, as you do not think like a farm boy, not at all.

Oh? and how does a farm boy think? People that live on farms are people okie. They have diverse opinions just like people in the rest of the world. There is not some way that they think. I know farmers that are on the extreme left and ones on the extreme right politically.

Like I thought okie. You lived in the country as a kid. You didn't learn to drive the tractor until you were 12? By 12 most farm kids I knew were already driving on the road with tractors or grain trucks. At 14, we were licensed to drive roads in South Dakota from sun up to sun down. Every farm kid had his permit at 14. My older brother and I were baling hay when we were 9 and 10. One driving the tractor and the other stacking bales.

Quote:

even though I have talked often about my farm experiences as a kid, and knowing farmers and all of that.

I always found your claims to be quite humorous okie. The words of someone that spent a few weeks on a farm and now wants to brag that they know what farming is about. But I'm sure if you searched my posts okie, you would find I haven't kept my growing up on a farm secret. It was in eastern South Dakota. Not irrigated when I was growing up but part of the land is irrigated now. My brother was using the irrigation for alfalfa about 10 years ago when it was selling well because of drought in Tx and south. But now he has most of it in corn.

Surely you know about the politics of SD okie. The farm country there is so conservative they elected that "marxist" Tom Daschle for a number of years.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

I find your claim about milking cows from the age of 7 , interesting, parados, because I now have a grandson that turned 7. I would no way give him the responsibility of milking cows.

I never said I milked them alone.

Milking involves many things: feeding the cows, locking them in their stanchions, washing their teats, putting the straps on them to hold the milker, putting on the machines, checking to see if the machine is ready to come off, removing the machine, pouring the milk from the machine into a pail, pouring the pail through the strainer into the bulk tank.

There are many parts that a 7 year old is capable of doing and some he can't.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Oh? and how does a farm boy think? People that live on farms are people okie. They have diverse opinions just like people in the rest of the world. There is not some way that they think. I know farmers that are on the extreme left and ones on the extreme right politically.

Fair enough. I had a friend in grade school, whose father was actually sort of communist. He was instrumental in starting some of the farm co-ops in the area, which are kind of socialist in nature, but they are a good idea. My folks belonged to the coop.

Quote:

Like I thought okie. You lived in the country as a kid. You didn't learn to drive the tractor until you were 12? By 12 most farm kids I knew were already driving on the road with tractors or grain trucks. At 14, we were licensed to drive roads in South Dakota from sun up to sun down. Every farm kid had his permit at 14. My older brother and I were baling hay when we were 9 and 10. One driving the tractor and the other stacking bales.

I will take what you say at face value, but my folks thought more of our safety than that. Tractors were not meant to be driven by anybody too young. I may have driven a tractor very limited around the yard before 12, under the watchful eye of a parent, but I was not turned loose in a field with one, I can tell you that, and I am grateful for that. You say you were baling hay at 9 or 10? I have to question the sanity of that, parados. I don't think your parents were being responsible. In fact, I know a family that lost a son to a baler, but I believe he was much older than 9 or 10. This is gruesome, but he went through the baler after having some clothing catch on something. In summary, I will take your word for what it is, but it isn't totally believable. If it is true, I don't think the parents were that smart to let that go on.

Quote:

Quote:
even though I have talked often about my farm experiences as a kid, and knowing farmers and all of that.
I always found your claims to be quite humorous okie. The words of someone that spent a few weeks on a farm and now wants to brag that they know what farming is about.

There you go to your practice of twisting the truth. I spent far more than 2 weeks on a farm. What is your game here, parados, to intentionally make stuff up and distort my posts?

Quote:

But I'm sure if you searched my posts okie, you would find I haven't kept my growing up on a farm secret. It was in eastern South Dakota. Not irrigated when I was growing up but part of the land is irrigated now. My brother was using the irrigation for alfalfa about 10 years ago when it was selling well because of drought in Tx and south. But now he has most of it in corn.

Well, I am being honest to say this is the first time I have ever read any of this of your farming background, parados.

Quote:

Surely you know about the politics of SD okie. The farm country there is so conservative they elected that "marxist" Tom Daschle for a number of years.

It has in fact seemed rather unbelievable that South Dakota could send people like Daschle to D.C. I get your point, parados.

In fact, I was reading an interesting article a while back about a community in Montana that was set up with a communist type of local government. I don't remember the name of it, but a quick search now turns up this about communist movements being common in northeast Montana back in the 20s and 30s. It seems that perhaps the immigrants were more prone to that political temptation, due to their heritage in Europe before immigrating to America. I find this quite interesting. Since Montana and South Dakota are adjacent, and the fact that the settlers may be similar in heritage, that might explain why a rural state like South Dakota can send such libs to D.C.?
http://www.sidneyherald.com/articles/2010/04/26/news/montana/doc4bd1fe814cb1a719517026.txt

I guess I have gotten my impressions of farmers from the ones in Oklahoma, which are by and large pretty conservative. In fact, although my parents were Democrats, many of the surrounding farmers were always Republicans when I was growing up. My parentsl eventually abandoned voting for Democrats nationally, even though they stayed registered Democrats.

3 Replies

@okie,

I guess that neither of you heard of the phenomenon known as agrarian liberalism.

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@okie,

Co-ops are communistic? News to me!

1 Reply

@parados,

para has been looking for love in all the wrong places.

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Democrats are in the bitter barn and they are in no mood to play nice.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

, I know a family that lost a son to a baler, but I believe he was much older than 9 or 10. This is gruesome, but he went through the baler after having some clothing catch on something. In summary, I will take your word for what it is, but it isn't totally believable. If it is true, I don't think the parents were that smart to let that go on.

Like I said okie.. you weren't really a farm kid. We knew all about safety. One would have to be incredibly unlucky or incredibly stupid to get stuck in a baler when baling hay. There is no reason to be running it when you aren't on the tractor and in the field. You simply start the pto as you pull up to the hay row. The pto shaft is the most dangerous thing for any piece of equipment because it is there when you get on and off the tractor if it is running. When baling, you turn it off when you are going to get off the tractor. I am guessing the son of a family you know that was killed was probably older and attempting to fix a baler that wasn't working. Adults stick their hands in snow blowers all the time without realizing they need to make sure it is shut off before doing so. Stupidity or carelessness, either of which can get you injured.

Quote:

There you go to your practice of twisting the truth. I spent far more than 2 weeks on a farm. What is your game here, parados, to intentionally make stuff up and distort my posts?

So you say but your words are not the words of someone that really knew farming which is why I refer to it as someone that spent 2 weeks. It is a phrase okie that illustrates your lack of knowledge.

Quote:

Since Montana and South Dakota are adjacent, and the fact that the settlers may be similar in heritage,

South Dakota is a large state okie. I lived 8 miles from Minnesota and about 350 miles from Montana. Your statement would be like saying everyone in Oklahoma is like people in New Mexico.

Quote:

It has in fact seemed rather unbelievable that South Dakota could send people like Daschle to D.C. I get your point, parados.

Do you okie? Do you really understand that people are just people and they can have differing opinions without being unpatriotic or out to destroy the country? I doubt you do understand my point okie.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Co-ops are communistic? News to me!

Not only that CI but the evil big government brought electricity to okie's farm. No wonder he hates government. It meant progress.

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Democrats are in the bitter barn and they are in no mood to play nice.

Republicans are proudly fascist. Do you remember the Rep thugs sent to Florida to disrupt the vote counting, and the thugs who disrupted the recent town hall health-care meetings?

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Silly Advocate, everybody knows the fascist thugs are radical progressive liberals.

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@parados,

I think both of you grew up on farms, yours seems more like a organized business kind of farm and okie's seems more like a family's farm. But then what do I know? The only experience I had with farms was when I would visit my cousins and aunts. One summer my sister and I decided we would make some extra spending money by helping out on my aunts tobacco field. Ugh, I lasted all of about fifteen minutes in the hot sun ( it was only morning) before I sat down the field and cried and said I didn't care how much they paid me, I wasn't going to do it. My sister took up my slack and made quite a bit money that summer. I don't even think she spent it. I went on back to my regular activties and didn't miss the money at all.

All of my relatives that owned farms, (I am ignorant so I don't know what kind, they had fields and cows and dairies and things and that's about all I know) were all true blue union believer democrats. Not all of them worked on the farm all the time, they were also iron workers, hence the unions. They didn't consider unions and the government to be bad commies. They felt democrats were for the little guys working in the factories and the iron workers doing whatever they do in factories. The owners were probably the republicans having to pay a fair wage and so I guess they considered the unions to be commies. Would rather go back to slave labor I guess.

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