parados
 
  2  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:38 pm
@okie,
How nice of you to leave out part of the conversation okie..What do you say about that? Oh. that's right... you are being dishonest.

Quote:
How do you know that no hay barns are being built today with second floors? I would bet that there is one or some in various places.
LOL.. OK.. tell us where. Because no one would build one today. Hay lofts were built at a time when hay was stored loose and moved by hand. Most farmers today make large round bales. These are too large to put into a loft. They are moved by tractor and stored outside or in one story sheds. The farmers that do make small square bales usually do it for specific purposes like horses so it is small quantities and stored near the animals it will be fed to.


Quote:
I think it is entirely reasonable to assume from what you said that you think barns are ADA compliant, and that seems to explain to you why they do not have haylofts anymore, since ADA, in your opinion.
Only if you make up stuff okie. I never said they were built that way because of ADA. I said because of the way they are built they would meet ADA requirements. That doesn't mean they are not exempt from ADA. It only means they meet many of the ADA conditions by the way they are constructed. No second floor so no ADA requirement to reach that floor. Large doors, so no need to meet door size requirements.

Quote:
You then began to argue about it, and at one point, you said " No modern barn built today has a hay loft.
I only said that because you stupidly argued that barns have second floors. I pointed out that ADA only applies to new construction or major renovations and no barn built today would have a second floor. It is a waste of money.
okie
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:31 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
How nice of you to leave out part of the conversation okie..What do you say about that? Oh. that's right... you are being dishonest.
I included the pertinent sentences.
Quote:
Quote:
How do you know that no hay barns are being built today with second floors? I would bet that there is one or some in various places.
LOL.. OK.. tell us where. Because no one would build one today. Hay lofts were built at a time when hay was stored loose and moved by hand. Most farmers today make large round bales. These are too large to put into a loft. They are moved by tractor and stored outside or in one story sheds. The farmers that do make small square bales usually do it for specific purposes like horses so it is small quantities and stored near the animals it will be fed to.
You post half truths, parados. We stored baled hay in the hayloft of our barn, not loose hay. I also worked for a farmer during the summers to put myself through college, and we had several barns on various farms with bales stored in the lofts, so you are wrong, parados, okay. You are correct that many farmers now use larger bales, but there are still small bales around.
In regard to whether barns with haylofts are being built now, I think it is silly you suggest none are being built. In fact, I was recently looking at some brochures of buildings that can be purchased as precontstructed kits, built like small barns, that have second stories or lofts. They can be used as cabins if brought to code for residential, or they can be used as shops or barns.
Quote:
Quote:
I think it is entirely reasonable to assume from what you said that you think barns are ADA compliant, and that seems to explain to you why they do not have haylofts anymore, since ADA, in your opinion.
Only if you make up stuff okie. I never said they were built that way because of ADA. I said because of the way they are built they would meet ADA requirements. That doesn't mean they are not exempt from ADA. It only means they meet many of the ADA conditions by the way they are constructed. No second floor so no ADA requirement to reach that floor. Large doors, so no need to meet door size requirements.
Try to talk your way out of this, parados, but it is obvious to me that you don't know what you are talking about.
Quote:
Quote:
You then began to argue about it, and at one point, you said " No modern barn built today has a hay loft.
I only said that because you stupidly argued that barns have second floors. I pointed out that ADA only applies to new construction or major renovations and no barn built today would have a second floor. It is a waste of money.
How can you assert that no barn would have a second floor? Silly statement, parados. I have just given you one example. Common sense alone would tell anyone that you are talking about something you don't know much about. Have you even been on a farm or farms?
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:03 pm
@parados,
Quote:
LOL.. OK.. tell us where. Because no one would build one today. Hay lofts were built at a time when hay was stored loose and moved by hand. Most farmers today make large round bales. These are too large to put into a loft. They are moved by tractor and stored outside or in one story sheds. The farmers that do make small square bales usually do it for specific purposes like horses so it is small quantities and stored near the animals it will be fed to.


I've seen two in the last year, both horse barns, and I'm thinking of building one myself.

Round bales certainly would fit in a loft, but why would anyone want to put them in there. They don't come apart easily, you'd need a chain saw to cut them in sections.
parados
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:36 pm
@okie,
Quote:
You post half truths, parados. We stored baled hay in the hayloft of our barn, not loose hay.

I hardly think you put baled hay in a loft today or any time in the last 20 years. It's been 20 years since I have seen anyone put hay in a loft of a cow barn. Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "today". Most lofts were built prior to baled hay and then small bales were stored there later.

Quote:
You are correct that many farmers now use larger bales, but there are still small bales around.
Glad you agree with me that small bales still exist.

Quote:
I was recently looking at some brochures of buildings that can be purchased as precontstructed kits, built like small barns, that have second stories or lofts.
Those aren't cow barns.

Quote:
How can you assert that no barn would have a second floor? Silly statement, parados.
Because I have spent a hell of a lot more time around cows than you have. Milking or raising cows is usually very tight margins. No farmer today would build a barn that is that expensive and expect to make money in the long run. A barn with a second story would probably cost 4 times the cost of a single story barn.


Quote:
Common sense alone would tell anyone that you are talking about something you don't know much about. Have you even been on a farm or farms?
Well moron, I have spent a hell of a lot more time on a farm than you have. But, don't worry, you know all about farms because you spent a couple of weeks on one as a teenager. Rolling Eyes
parados
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:43 pm
@JTT,
Quote:

I've seen two in the last year, both horse barns, and I'm thinking of building one myself.

Some people it seems have a hard time telling the difference between cows and horses. Sure there are hobby farmers with small horse barns with a second story. But horses aren't cows and those buildings are lucky if they can house more than 4 or 5 animals. Not exactly a cow barn on the Kansas prairie like okie was talking about.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:52 pm
@parados,
Quote:
I hardly think you put baled hay in a loft today or any time in the last 20 years. It's been 20 years since I have seen anyone put hay in a loft of a cow barn. Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "today". Most lofts were built prior to baled hay and then small bales were stored there later.


We have a winner, folks!

Parados, I hereby present you with this hardened cow pattie. You have been unanimously chosen as the winner of the Insanely Inane Minutia Award.

You should take pride in the fact that it will now be retired as all the judges, after length consideration, believe that there could never be anyone that could come anywhere close to defeating you.
parados
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:53 pm
@JTT,
Let me refer you to this post JTT

http://able2know.org/topic/71145-1851#post-4410907

Notice what okie says.. Now compare it to the argument about horse barns that hold a few horses.
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:55 pm
@parados,
I've sent this last post of yours to the judges. That'll cap it for sure!
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:44 am
@parados,
And your claim about no second floor is absolutely ridiculous and easily proven wrong.

Here is a company that builds barns, WITH second floors...
http://www.barnmaster.com/specialty_interiors.asp

Watch their slide show and you will see all kinds of barns with second floors.

But I have a question for you.
Can you think of any job or modern manmade structure that is not required to be ADA compliant?
There are several that I know of, but can you think of any.
parados
 
  1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 07:49 am
@mysteryman,
You do realize they build barns for horses which are NOT cows.

Quote:
Designed by horsemen for horsemen
parados
 
  1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 07:57 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Can you think of any job or modern manmade structure that is not required to be ADA compliant?
There are several that I know of, but can you think of any.

Of course there are several. In fact most barns would be exempt because they are private property with no public access and fewer than 15 employees.

Okie's "friend" is subject to ADA because it is public access and providing rental space.
okie
 
  -1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 10:13 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
I hardly think you put baled hay in a loft today or any time in the last 20 years. It's been 20 years since I have seen anyone put hay in a loft of a cow barn. Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "today". Most lofts were built prior to baled hay and then small bales were stored there later.
We have a winner, folks!
Parados, I hereby present you with this hardened cow pattie. You have been unanimously chosen as the winner of the Insanely Inane Minutia Award.
You should take pride in the fact that it will now be retired as all the judges, after length consideration, believe that there could never be anyone that could come anywhere close to defeating you.

I hereby recommend the award name be changed to "Insanely and Wrong Inane Minutia Award" I agree the award could be retired, with parados the alltime winner. If it isn't retired, there is a possibility that pom could make a run for the award and beat parados out as all time winner.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 10:14 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

You do realize they build barns for horses which are NOT cows.

Quote:
Designed by horsemen for horsemen

Barns can be used for both, parados. You can put horses in cowbarns and you can also put cows in horsebarns.
okie
 
  -1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 10:18 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
Can you think of any job or modern manmade structure that is not required to be ADA compliant?
There are several that I know of, but can you think of any.

Of course there are several. In fact most barns would be exempt because they are private property with no public access and fewer than 15 employees.
Okie's "friend" is subject to ADA because it is public access and providing rental space.
Okie's friend happens to be the landlord of commercial space "okie" has rented in the past, and another happens to be another tenant that was considering buying the property. By the way, none of the employers there have more than 15 employees, and none of them do a retail business. Give it up parados, as it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 11:10 am


Nice barn Cool
talk72000
 
  1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:17 pm
@H2O MAN,
Instead of dousing the fire with water you bring gasoline to further inflame the matters.
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:48 pm
PRESIDENT OBAMA, YOU ARE NOT OBEYING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA:
Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Amendment V. No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment IX. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Article II. Section 1. No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

Article II. Section 1. The President shall, … Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Article II. Section 4. The President … shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article II. Section 8. The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Article VI. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution.

Article I. Section 8.
The Congress shall have power …
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;



PRESIDENT OBAMA, WE SHALL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE:

The solution for rescuing our Liberty, rescuing our Constitutional Republic and rescuing our Capitalist Economy is not to repeatedly sound alarms and repeatedly give the reasons for those alarms. The solution is to impeach President Obama, or initiate his removal from the presidency some other lawful way. He is unlawfully leading the transfer of private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned it to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned it.

Nowhere in the Constitution has the President, the Congress, or the Judiciary been granted the power to transfer private property from those who lawfully earned it to those who have not lawfully earned it. Any branch of the federal government that makes such private property transfers violates both the "supreme law of the land," and their "oath or affirmation required by Article VI to support this Constitution".

When any branch of the federal government makes such property transfers, it is exercising powers not granted by the Constitution to the federal government. According to Amendment X, the exercise of non-granted powers by the federal government violates the Constitution.

The Constitution thereby, makes such property transfers unlawful.

Because President Obama is committing these unconstitutional acts, we had to elect members to the House of Representatives, who will make, second, and debate a motion to impeach President Obama.

Under the Constitution of the USA, the federal government is supposed to be a government of specifically enumerated powers. The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS:

COMMANDEERED STATE LEGISLATURES
ObamaCare requires the states to pay for part of the program – which is part of the budget trickery, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid used to make ObamaCare appear less costly than it actually is.

FORCED CITIZENS TO BUY A PRODUCT
ObamaCare forces citizens, under penalty of the law, to purchase health insurance. This provisdion is antithetical to liberty.

PROVIDED FRAUDULENT BUDGET NUMBERS
To secure passage of ObamaCare, it was necessary to put out fraudulent budget numbers to the American people concerning its likely cost.

THREATENS TO MAKE UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROPERTY SEIZURES
Not satisfied with placing banks, insurance companies, and the car industry under federal control, President Obama is now preparing to seize huge tracts of land throughout the American West.

REFUSED TO ENFORCE THE LAW ON UNION ACCOUNTABILITY
Labor unions in America receive special favored treatment under the law. You can’t work in some states without being a member of a labor union, which requires members to pay dues to the labor union. In return for this special favored status in American law, labor unions are supposed to itemize and report their expenses.

But the Obama Administration has openly announced it will no longer enforce these disclosure requirements

PROSPECTS FOR IMPEACHMENT
There is every indication that the American people are alarmed by the wholesale deteroration of our Constitutional Republic they see has taken place by President Obama and the lame duck Congress. So we will have a brand new Congress after November 2, 2010 – hopefully one that has a greater appreciation for securing America’s heritage of liberty.

WE elected an alleged-conservative majority to the House but not the Senate. the House majority that begins their term January 3rd, has said they wanted to rescue and secure our Individual Liberty under the Law, our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy.

CAN this be achieved, if President Obama is not first held accountable for his past unlawful actions?

NO! These and other of our objectives cannot be achieved if President Obama were not first held accountable for his past unlawful actions.

The only way to begin to hold Barack Obama accountable for his past unlawful actions is to impeach him. Furthermore, Barack Obama must be prevented from continuing to unlawfully implement some of his objectives by executive order, when he cannot convince Congress to pass laws that permit meeting his objectives.

While Obama can veto Congress’s measures to rescue and secure our freedoms, Obama cannot veto a majority of the House voting to impeach him and put Obama on public trial for his unlawful actions. Such a trial can increase the number of voters and members of congress who support removing Obama from the presidency by the voters in 2012.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:50 pm
@talk72000,
Who set fire to the barn?
talk72000
 
  0  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
Your buddy GWB with the invasion of Iraq on false WMD charges.
talk72000
 
  0  
Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:59 pm
@ican711nm,
You who benefited from government largsse now attacking the hand that fed it. Government funded the development of computers and aviation. What an ingrate being a former IBM engineer and an aviator now.
 

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