mysteryman
 
  0  
Thu 11 Nov, 2010 11:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Actually, this time okie has a point.

Would you require any building, even if that building was not a public access building, to have handicapped access and handicapped parking?

revelette
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 07:42 am
@mysteryman,
If I read Okie's example right, the storage place was for RV's and boats and things of nature? I am assuming that private people store their own RV's and boats themselves? If they do then the public does have assess and handicapped do own boats and RV's. As far as having to pave the area, that kind of goes along with with making the area accessible for the handicapped. I see nothing wrong with it all. It is the same as making a store handicapped accessible.

As far as the Pell grants, why is it education always has to back seat with conservatives and the first to get the ax in any kind of budget saving measure? I am sure if people were really serious about cutting unnecessary programs and things they can find other programs besides education or the military.
parados
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:30 am
@okie,
Quote:
ci, you do not understand. Things can be taken to the nonsensical. Would you require handicap access to a cow barn in the middle of a section of land on the prairies in Kansas?

And the person taking it to the nonsensical is YOU okie. Cow barns have no second floor and have large doors so they are handicap accessible by their very nature.
okie
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:24 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
ci, you do not understand. Things can be taken to the nonsensical. Would you require handicap access to a cow barn in the middle of a section of land on the prairies in Kansas?
And the person taking it to the nonsensical is YOU okie. Cow barns have no second floor and have large doors so they are handicap accessible by their very nature.
It is obvious you haven't been in many cow barns, parados. By the way, thanks for the comic relief provided by your uninformed opinions. Uninformed to the realities of the real world, parados.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:26 am
@parados,
Actually. many barns have "second floors" on them.
They are called hay lofts and are used to store hay, feed, supplies, or other farm equipment.
And yes, some of them are even converted into living quarters.
okie
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:37 am
@revelette,
revellette, I am sure there is nothing wrong with paving the whole thing, but is it necessary, and is it even advisable - considering the storm water runoff and regulations about that now? To be accurate, I don't know if they would have been required to pave the entire storage yard, but I think it had more to do with around the building itself. Again, the use of the building is not retail and it is not even altogether used by the public at large, as it is light industrial with some businesses having no walk in business at all.

Just take my word for it, if you could know the situation here, you would also not blame the potential buyer for abandoning his plans to buy the property. Understand that the requirements are not being placed on the current owner, but the city was going to place them on a future owner, simply by virtue of the fact that ownership was changing, even though usage was not. I do not understand it, and neither did the current owner and potential buyer. They basically threw up their hands in frustration over the lack of logic about it. I think they attributed it to the inherent built in inefficiencies of government, and that is the way I see it as well.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:47 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Actually. many barns have "second floors" on them.
They are called hay lofts and are used to store hay, feed, supplies, or other farm equipment.
And yes, some of them are even converted into living quarters.
I was going to point that out as well. The old barn on the farm where I grew up had a second floor where we stored hay. It was sort of a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood to prove you could throw a hay bale from a truck or trailer into the hayloft door. When I was in my twenties, I happened to be home when a thunderstorm came up and lightning made a direct hit on the barn. It exploded in flames, largely because of the large amount of hay that happened to be stacked in there at the time. Hay, if a little on the green side, can generate heat and gases within the stack, and this adds increased risk to fire. However, our barn fire was not due to being started internally, but by the direct hit by lightning, but the conditions made it explode and go up faster.

To be fair to parados, some farmers did not milk the cows in those high barns, although some did. We had an attached lower pole barn that we milked the cows in.

mm, I think you are correct about some barns with living quarters. In the old countries, certain countries especially, the barns and houses were connected. I think that might have been the case in Denmark where my dad was born. when some of those Europeans came to this country and settled, they would build their houses and barns in similar ways to where they were from.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:50 am
@mysteryman,
mm, What's more important? The war in Afghanistan or making our home more secure and economically viable in this world marketplace? I say, charity begins at home. Otherwise, we will not be able to remain a superpower to do anything in this world.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:52 am
@mysteryman,
Even though it may not be considered what you call a "public access building," you limit the workers inside to all be mobile, and not hire the handicapped. That's discrimination by fiat.
okie
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
Good question, ci. I was beginning to wonder if the subject was Obama. Sorry to help take the subject off course, folks. Anyway, back to the issue, which is Obama and his policies. ci asks a good question: "What's more important? The war in Afghanistan or making our home more secure and economically viable in this world marketplace"
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:20 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
In the old countries, certain countries especially, the barns and houses were connected. I think that might have been the case in Denmark where my dad was born. when some of those Europeans came to this country and settled, they would build their houses and barns in similar ways to where they were from.


Any cattle was inside the house, they weren't extra barns for cows etc.
Harvest was stored inside the house as well.

Barns were only used as field barns, later, from the 19th century onwards.


(That's for 'normal' farms. Farms run by nobility/larger farmers had a mansion/castle and barns aside.)
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Now you are getting ridiculous.
I'm left handed, and most scissors are made for right handed people.
Do I have a case for discrimination?

I dont have children, so I dont get the child tax credit, and cant deduct child care from my taxes.
I am being discriminated against.

If you want to, you can find discrimination in everything that goes on in your life.
But if you only do that, you miss out on a lot of things.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:06 pm
@mysteryman,
If I'm ridiculous, look at most cities/counties where they have building codes/laws about access for handicapped and elderly. Even many (uf not most) public transportation departments are required to provide access for handicapped people.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:19 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Now you are getting ridiculous.
I'm left handed, and most scissors are made for right handed people.
Do I have a case for discrimination?

I dont have children, so I dont get the child tax credit, and cant deduct child care from my taxes.
I am being discriminated against.



Well, to get answers to your questions, just read the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Labor Standards Act ... Oh, and about you beimng childless, perhaps the Pregnancy Discrimination Act gives an answer.


But seriously: you get all and everything for left handers even in larger supermarkets (here).
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 05:14 pm
@okie,
No modern barn built today has a hay loft. Hay lofts are from a time when there was no ADA.

I'll bet you can't find me a single barn built in the last 20 years that has a hay loft.

Quote:
It is obvious you haven't been in many cow barns, parados
LOL.. I have been in a lot more barns than you have okie, obviously. Otherwise you would know what kind of barns are built today.
parados
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 05:15 pm
@mysteryman,
See my reply to okie.

ADA only applies to new buildings or major reconstruction. A barn converted to living quarters is exempt from ADA because it is a private residence. New barns built today do NOT have hay lofts.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 07:24 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

No modern barn built today has a hay loft. Hay lofts are from a time when there was no ADA.
I'll bet you can't find me a single barn built in the last 20 years that has a hay loft.
Quote:
It is obvious you haven't been in many cow barns, parados
LOL.. I have been in a lot more barns than you have okie, obviously. Otherwise you would know what kind of barns are built today.

If that is true, parados, about ADA mandating handicap access to a hay barn, what better illustration is necessary to illustrate the silliness of over-regulation, as well as why many things cost so much more for little or no benefit? Personally, I find it a little hard to believe the government could be that stupid, but hardly anything surprises me anymore.
parados
 
  1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 07:46 pm
@okie,
Who said ADA mandates handicap access to a hay barn? I merely pointed out that your claim about hay barns was ridiculous since there is no second floor on any built today.

It's you that is stupid okie, thinking that ADA applies to barns.
okie
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:07 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Who said ADA mandates handicap access to a hay barn? I merely pointed out that your claim about hay barns was ridiculous since there is no second floor on any built today.
You did not say so, but you seemed to insinuate that, parados. And now you are claiming no barns are being built now with second floors. Are you going to deny you said that later as well? How do you know that no hay barns are being built today with second floors? I would bet that there is one or some in various places.
Quote:
It's you that is stupid okie, thinking that ADA applies to barns.
What is your game here, parados? Are you honestly that confused about what has been said here? It was me that said to ci " Would you require handicap access to a cow barn in the middle of a section of land on the prairies in Kansas?" You then began to argue about it, and at one point, you said " No modern barn built today has a hay loft. Hay lofts are from a time when there was no ADA. I'll bet you can't find me a single barn built in the last 20 years that has a hay loft. " I think it is entirely reasonable to assume from what you said that you think barns are ADA compliant, and that seems to explain to you why they do not have haylofts anymore, since ADA, in your opinion.

okie
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:19 pm
Anyway, I think the subject here is supposed to be Obama. Rasmussen's Strongly Approve / Strongly Disapprove index for Obama is again near his alltime low. It is Minus 20 today. Does anyone have any theories about what is driving it down a few points the last few days?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 24% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -20"
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/november_2010/obama_approval_index_november_12_2010/426136-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_november_12_2010.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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