Obama '08?

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oh my god! Skits and food from the region! Next thing you know, the kids will be blowing **** straight up.

C'mon dude, this is not a valid complaint on their part or yours. This is anti-Muslim sentiment rearing its' ugly head.

Cycloptichorn

C'mon dude, what do you think would happen if a Catholic priest or Christian preacher was invited to a school to do their thing? It would not be pretty, cyclops, you would probably have the ACLU filing suit the next day.

Is the type of world as described in the following web link something you support, cyclops, to prove you are politically correct? Are you that spineless?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-04/world/iran.stoning_1_photo-lashes-full-face?_s=PM:WORLD
"Iran orders 99 lashes for woman facing execution, rights group says"

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Are you going to apologize for lying to us okie?

If I had lied, yes, but that isn't the case. You clearly did, which I posted clear evidence of.

Quote:

Or are you pretending you didn't and hoping no one will notice you have no decency or honesty?

No need to pretend. I stand by my statements here and their sincerity and honesty, which stands in sharp contrast to you and yours.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

I am on record, and have stated many times, that I place no faith in opinion polls.
Years ago I read an interview with the man that ran the Gallup poll organization (I posted a link on the old abuzz), where he admitted that how the question was worded had a lot to do with how it was answered.
He said that if the question was worded correctly, he could have people saying that Hitler was the greatest friend the Jews ever had.

After that, the only poll I trust is the one on election day, when the votes are counted.

1 Reply

@okie,

parados wrote:

So...
You state quite clearly the following -
Obama doesn't love America
Obama wants to destroy America

But we are to believe that means you think Obama is ambivalent about America?
|
You are dishonest and clearly have no decency to try to argue that you don't mean to imply that Obama hates America.

If you are being honest okie, then answer my question.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

The conservatives I meet in my daily life can not keep their mouths shut about their politics. Whatever they think comes out their pie holes and they link everything to politics. Lefties are much more discreet. I have said this before. The right is so aggressive that one can not remain ignorant of their opinions.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oh my god! Skits and food from the region! Next thing you know, the kids will be blowing **** straight up.

C'mon dude, this is not a valid complaint on their part or yours. This is anti-Muslim sentiment rearing its' ugly head.

Cycloptichorn

C'mon dude, what do you think would happen if a Catholic priest or Christian preacher was invited to a school to do their thing? It would not be pretty, cyclops, you would probably have the ACLU filing suit the next day.

Incorrect. We learned about modern Christian history simultaneously. It was part of the same lesson plan to study various different religions and talk about the ways they were similar and unique. I would also point out that they didn't invite a Mullah (or Muslim priest equivalent) to the classroom at all.

Not only that, I was in a Christmas pageant at school as a kid; multiple times. I don't see you getting all up in arms about that.

I know that there was no concept of Diversity or teaching kids about other cultures when you were a kid, but this has been going on a long time. And outside of the minds of anti-Muslim folks - such as yourself - it isn't a problem for anyone, and actually helps kids learn about life elsewhere.

Quote:

Is the type of world as described in the following web link something you support, cyclops, to prove you are politically correct? Are you that spineless?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-04/world/iran.stoning_1_photo-lashes-full-face?_s=PM:WORLD
"Iran orders 99 lashes for woman facing execution, rights group says"

[/quote]

No, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's a non-sequitur.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

Being skeptical about polls is smart - I think, but election polls have usually been pretty accurate. It's difficult when statistical standard deviation reality is that they can vary +/- 3%, and the election is a close one.

However, overall, I believe skepticism is warranted.

0 Replies

Leftist Liberals do this repeatedly on A2K. So now they're going to expand and do it throughout the media via advertizing and other means. They cannot intimidate okie and me with their sick maligning. Can they intimidate anyone else?

Quote:

Tea Party Patriots
1025 Rose Crk 620-322
Woodstock, GA 30189

Quote:
Tea Party Patriots are stupid, illiterate, racist, and mean.

That is the message being promoted by socialist multi-billionaire George Soros on his new website, TeaPartyTracker.org. He and his coalition are set to spend millions upon millions of dollars to make the American public believe that message as part of their war on you and us.

Why are they doing this? Why will they go to such lengths to smear and insult the honor of tens of millions of their fellow American citizens?

The answer is that they know the vast majority of the American public supports Tea Party Patriots' values of fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets. Having an open discussion on these three basic, common sense subjects is like shining sunlight on vampires to them. So they attack viciously to change the subject.

Their goal is to make American's afraid to speak the truth for fear of being labeled as a brainless, slack-jawed, bigot.

Are you afraid?

Will you be manipulated into silence by their lies?

Will you sit back and allow them to drive America into ruin because you don't want them to call you a few names?

Of course not! And neither will we!

We are American Tea Party Patriots! We embody the spirit that has driven every generation of Americans to fight for justice and freedom. To assume that they can douse that spirit with a few simple insults is absolutely ridiculous. Clearly they have no idea what America and Americans are all about.

So we will fight!

We will fight with the energy of American patriotism that has never been defeated. We will drive them out of power and back into the shadows. We will inform, educate, and motivate our fellow citizens with the truth. And together we will take back our country!

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

parados wrote:

So...
You state quite clearly the following -
Obama doesn't love America
Obama wants to destroy America

But we are to believe that means you think Obama is ambivalent about America?
|
You are dishonest and clearly have no decency to try to argue that you don't mean to imply that Obama hates America.

If you are being honest okie, then answer my question.

You have a number of issues here. I will try to clarify and correct what you have written.

First of all, you make a claim that I have stated quite clearly that Obama does not love America and that he wants to destroy it. To start with, I would challenge that statement and challenge you to find quotes for those claims of yours. I do not know all of the specific statements I have made, but I do know what I believe and I try to be as consistent as I can be in stating those beliefs. I think I have said that I think Obama believes America has been a rotten country and an unfair country, but that is quite different than saying that he hates the country. I do think that he dislikes various aspects of the country and that he wants to change the country into something more to his liking. That is quite different than outright hatred, which should be obvious to anyone with any common sense.

In regard to Obama being ambivalent about America, I don't think that would be an accurate term, I think he has very definite ideas about the country and how he wants to remake it according to his liking. I think some of his ideas may be more in line with what his friend, Jeremiah Wright, has verbalized in his sermons. We know that he has said that Wright was a mentor and spiritual inspiration to him, and we also know that much of Wright's religious beliefs are intertwined with his political beliefs, and so it is not unreasonable to assume that Obama's are as well. Also, the very fact that Obama has been friends with the likes of Bill Ayers and kicked off his political career in Ayers home, that is an indication that he has some sympathies for the political beliefs of a guy like Ayers. Just so everyone knows this, we can review the facts, Ayers was a member of the radical Weathermen organization that tried to overthrow the United States and he was also involved with bombing the Pentagon. Ayers is also on record for saying that he is apparently not sorry for what he did, but that he should have done more. This is the man that Obama has been friends with, kicking off his political career in his home and also serving on a foundation with him in Chicago.

S0 the evidence is that Obama is not at all ambivalent, but that he has very strong feelings about America, not all of them pro-America in my opinion. Is it outright hatred, no I do not think that would be accurate and I do not think I have ever said that. If you can provide a quote of me saying that, parados, I will retract the statement, but if you cannot, I will once again ask you to apologize and admit that you have been making things up or lying about what I have posted.

2 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

S0 the evidence is that Obama is not at all ambivalent

What? Everything you presented was about an associate of his. This is the very definition of 'ambivalent evidence.'

Present things that Obama personally has said or done that lead you to believe that he feels the way you say he does. I say this, because you know I can present an endless number of quotes showing that he believes the opposite of what you say, and can point to actions he's taken that also show the opposite.

I don't know why I even ask, though, because you know you're not going to be able to present anything. Just tarring through associations.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Leftist Liberals do this repeatedly on A2K. So now they're going to expand and do it throughout the media via advertizing and other means. They cannot intimidate okie and me with their sick maligning. Can they intimidate anyone else?

ican, I have come to realize that one of the tactics of leftists is to use ridicule. The following was extracted from Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

So it appears that the theory they are using is to try to get a conservative mad enough after enough insulting, that the conservative will lose his cool and say something stupid, with which they will then use to their advantage after that. They will of course not feel one bit guilty or responsible for all of their insults and distortions.

I don't know if the liberals here are consciously designing their insults and distortions according to an Alinsky or similar principle of leftism, or they just inadvertantly do it because it is their personality. If anyone has any inside information on that, I would be interested. I kind of get the impression though that leftists on forums may use tactics because they are sort of professional leftists and therefore use such things as part of their playbook. Perhaps they learn these tactics from each other, from organizations that involve themselves in furthering leftist causes? I will just say that is a suspicion but I have no proof of that.

0 Replies

@okie,

I see.. okie,

So you are arguing that you only said that you think Obama just doesn't like America?

But that doesn't explain why you use the word "destroy" when it comes to talking about what Obama is doing? "Destroy" has a connotation that he is actively working to undermine something he hates. Don't you think that when you claim Obama is working to destroy America that it shows you think he hates America? I do. If you aren't trying to show he hates America then tell us what emotion you think he feels toward America

When you tie Obama to a terrorist that hated what America was doing. Aren't you trying to show Obama hates America? It seems so. What do you think it shows about how Obama feels about America if you aren't trying to imply he hates America?

Quote:

S0 the evidence is that Obama is not at all ambivalent, but that he has very strong feelings about America, not all of them pro-America in my opinion.

So, he has strong feelings and they aren't pro America. Isn't the only strong anti America feeling "hatred?" If it isn't hatred then tell us what strong feeling you are referring to.

Quote:

I will once again ask you to apologize and admit that you have been making things up or lying about what I have posted.

Tell us what strong emotion Obama feels toward the US in your opinion okie. I don't think I made anything up based on your statements. It seems you just aren't being clear about what strong emotion you are talking about.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Present things that Obama personally has said or done that lead you to believe that he feels the way you say he does. I say this, because you know I can present an endless number of quotes showing that he believes the opposite of what you say, and can point to actions he's taken that also show the opposite.
Cycloptichorn

Obama's entire campaign message was changing America, you must be kidding to claim he has no strong feelings about it.

Here is but one quote from Michelle about what her husband has said:
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
Apparently, Michelle Obama referred to these words during her Democratic National Convention speech:

"She said, 'Barack stood up that day,' talking about a visit to Chicago neighborhoods, 'and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about 'The world as it is' and 'The world as it should be…' And, 'All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won't do – that we have an obligation to, fight for the world as it should be."

This is from Alinsky, cyclops, and I think we both know what political policies Alinsky believed in. It starts with an M, that should give you a hint. It is not at all unreasonable to assume that Obama finds agreement with Alinsky if he quotes from him. Is Obama a complete Marxist, I don't know, but as we have discussed much already, I think it is very obvious he shares much with the philosophy. This is evident from his past associations, his heros, his statements about spreading the wealth around, talk of greedy corporations, and buzzwords that he uses like "social justice."

1 Reply

@parados,

Can you provide any quotes where I used the word "destroy" when talking about Obama, parados?

As far as associating with terrorists that hate America, I did not make it up, parados, it is Obama that associates with for example, Bill Ayers, a former terrorist that seems to have hated America, and maybe he still hates America for all I know.

I don't make any of this up about Obama, it is he that has lived the record. Yes, some of it seems bizarre, but it is Obama that needs to do the explaining, not me.

2 Replies

@okie,

I already provided a quote from you okie.

If you want to deny you ever did it, then go ahead.

I guess you aren't going to be decent and honest and explain how Obama feels about America according to you.

1 Reply

@okie,

Okie..
What is the strong feeling you claim Obama has for America? Simple question and it should be easy for you to answer.

1 Reply

@parados,

You posted that I said that, but I don't see anywhere that you provided a quote. Maybe I missed it, so can you provide it again, it should be no problem for you.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Okie..
What is the strong feeling you claim Obama has for America? Simple question and it should be easy for you to answer.

I think he feels strongly that America is very flawed and that it needs changing to something he visualizes as more fair, just, and equal for all. In my opinion, he doesn't spell out his exact intent, which has always been the problem with Obama, he cloaks his beliefs and intents and we thus have to guess about his true feelings and intentions. I read his book, Audacity of Hope, hoping to find out what he really believed, but it too is written very carefully to cloak any solid beliefs that he has, that again my opinion after reading the book. That is why I think we have to pay special attention to his past actions, his associations, and that his brief stint in the Senate showed he was one of the most liberal or most liberal senator of all of them during that period of time. His first couple of years as president has not at all dispelled that radical liberal pattern.

2 Replies

The wit and knowledge of okie:

Quote:

July 15, 2010:
I am going to issue you a challenge, George, if you can find evidence in any of my posts that I am some kind of ultra wild eyed right wing extremist, not in the mainstream of political thought, I would like you to try it. I have a suspicion that your comment stems from my assertions here on this forum that Hitler was a leftist. You can confirm that or not, and if not, please kindly point out my stands on issues that places me out of the mainstream.

I am not going to back down from considering Hitler a leftist, obviously he was, and the facts are on my side.

July 13, 2010:
It is a well known fact that ultra-leftists commonly employ the practice of accusing their opposition of what they themselves do.

They are certainly more mainstream than many of Obama's friends and associates, which includes former terrorists, bigots, and communists.

Actually, I hate to stir up a hornets nest, but it seems to me and alot of other people that Obama's policies resemble Fascist policies, which is a combination of socialism and capitalism. In other words, he allows and uses capitalism as long as those capitalists are directed by the State, for the good of the State.

July 12, 2010:
Obama never did care about what Americans care about, face it, the man harbors radical sentiments in his heart. Just one indicator of that is all the Marxists and radicals he has appointed to his administration.

July 3, 2010:
If you want to classify Obama's questionable citizenship as a conspiracy type theory, I think this one has much more to it than the vast majority of them that come down the pike.

July 1, 2010:
But you are correct, if anything ever emerges that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama did not qualify to run for president, the Democrats and the press will go into full circle the wagons mode, and most of his voters or most avid supporters would probably go to the streets, so this issue is potentially a very dangerous issue for the country. And if such should ever happen, I think the blame falls squarely upon the liberal press that has not done its homework and continues not to do their homework in regard to Democrats.

Maybe thats why he is opposing Arizona's efforts to enforce the law down there? Ha ha. I doubt Obama could even get a green card if he needed one.

June 27, 2010:
So once Obama creates all of those jobs in government, who is going to support the whole mess? Wasn't everyone working for the government in the Soviet Union as well, while the whole thing eventually collapsed? And wasn't everyone working for the North Korean government while millions were starving? And is everyone working in Cuba as well, while everyone is living in "opulence?"

June 25, 2010:
Cyclops, I will let George answer your questions, but in all honesty your post really demonstrates a total lack of understanding what freedom means and why the free market is so much more efficient than central planning. It looks like you would learn from history and realize that central planning has caused more grief and suffering than can almost be imagined. You guys on the left seem to be so dense in regard to this, and you just persist in following a failed idealogy no matter how flawed and how many failures it has caused. I guess you have a religious fervor in regard to government, that somehow government is your magic answer to come to your rescue in virtually any problem or issue of life. After debating leftists here for the past few years, I have had to come to the conclusion that to many of you, government is your God, and the bigger the better. In other words, try to have the federal government do everything instead of local governments closer to the people, that is your preference.

For one thing, comparing the medical care from culture to culture, country to country, in terms of life spans, is a simplistic and fallacious comparison. There are numerous factors other than medical systems that determine life spans, which are ignored when simply looking at life spans.

This record (cut and paste) goes back to page 1698: I will continue this search and post tomorrow.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

I think he feels strongly that America is very flawed

That isn't a strong feeling okie. What is his strong feeling?
By changing to "he feels strongly" you are changing the meaning of "feeling" to avoid the question.

Quote:

he cloaks his beliefs and intents and we thus have to guess about his true feelings and intentions.

You continue to cloak your beliefs about what strong emotion Obama has toward America.
You claim he doesn't love it . (Love is a strong emotion)
You claim he has strong feelings but it isn't hate. So what is the strong emotion Obama has for America?

SO what is the emotion that Obama has toward America okie?
You continue to not give an answer.

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know