Obama '08?

Let's go a step further, and I'll ask you a question. Where were you when the US committed war crimes? I don't remember hearing your voice back then, or taking any action to bring this about.

You ignore the fact that the law you cite didn't exist during WWI and even those international conventions that did exist were observed only by countries concerned about reciprocal treatment by their opponents. None of them did anything to inhibit the Japanese in Manchuria and later in China; or limit their treatment of Allied prisioners or even civilians in South Asia and the Philippines. None of it inhibited Stalin in his treatment of the Baltic Countries he seized or his exterminations of the Ukranians, Crimean Tatars and other dissenters he slaughtered, dumped in Siberia to starve or condemned to the Goulag, or his massacres of the military and professional classes in Poland. Neither did any of it limit Hitler's treatment of conquored peoples and efforts to enslave and slaughter Poles Russians anf Jews.

The international government you imagine able to enforce these laws simply doesnt exist. The current, largely impotent, bodies chartered by the ineffectual UN to oversee human rights are as corrupt as most of the criminals I listed above.

You merely continue in your self-righteous fantasy world evidently because the scolding of scolding others appears to be an important source of gratification for you. Most folks here recognize that and that explains why you are not taken seriously.

Noticeably absent in your list is the USA. I wonder why that is, George.



look look, he's playing the piano again, quick shoot shoot.

George does, all the time, incessantly, almost without fail in his every post on these issues, as does Okie, Ican, ...

That's not a step further, CI. That's as inane a diversion as, jeeze, I already forget who it was, there are so many.

Would you like an explanation as to why this is so inane?

So? What he said are factual based on history. You talk about a different generation, and think what happened over half a century ago still has relevance today. The world has changed since that time from aggressive states like Germany and Japan to one that the world community will intervene more quickly. If you understand history at all, that was a common occurrence with the majority perpetrators from Europe.

The war crimes, as I've already noted, certainly do.

But there's no need to dwell on WWII as there are plenty of US war crimes happening as we speak.

Are what you call war crimes intentional acts? How many innocent civilians are deliberately killed by Americans? How many are accidentally killed by Americans?

How do you know?

Even a bigger question for JTT, is Obama now guilty of war crimes by virtue of him leaving American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? And what about those drones that Obama authorized, which have mistakenly gone awry and killed some civilians at various times? Should Obama be in a court facing charges, just as I think he claimed Bush and Cheney should have been?

And? Your relevance doesn't seem to make much difference in this world.

As one with very little real justification at all. Our greatest political and strategic error of the 20th century was getting involved in that one. We put a million troops into the western front by early 1918 and the French and British withdrew about 700,000 to put them in the Middle east to complete their destruction of the Ottoman Empire. They were aided in this by European Zionists and Hashemite Princes to whom they both promised the land of Palestine. We are still dealing with the consequences of that.

Absolutely, many times they were. I can't believe that you are this thick. Then again, you may not have read past the first line in what I've posted.

But war crimes don't have to be intentional acts. And the terrorism, Ican, the US is a world leader.

He didn't instigate unnecessary wars of aggression. That's what Bush & Cheney and company should be in court facing charges for.

You've still not answered my question, Okie. Was Smedley Butler, a highly decorated Marine, lying?

It's hard on the old hemorrhoids sitting on the horns of a dilemma, eh, Okie?

JTT, you need to be consistent. If the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were unnecessary wars of aggression as you claim, then Obama is continuing that very same policy. Obviously if one picks up where another left off, the one that continues a policy is nearly as guilty or every bit as guilty as the one that started it. For example, if you see this as a case of Bush beating up the innocent, then Obama coming in and continuing to beat up the innocent after Bush left, that is obviously just as bad.

Who is this Smedley Butler guy, JTT, that makes him an authority on it? I have no idea if he was lying or not, or just expressing an opinion. I would need to know more about him. Frankly I had never heard of the guy, so did a quick search, but it tells me little except he expressed some opinions in at least one book. Big deal, he is just one of millions of vets and every vet has his or her own opinion based upon his or her experiences and philosophy of life.

That is false, Okie. The war crime is instigating an unprovoked war of aggression. If there are instances of Obama committing war crimes then he should face the consequences too. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.



You're sure a selective reader, Okie. He was not just one of millions of vets.

What makes him special? Because he wrote a book with opinions that you like?

You do realize that an act passed in 1996 has no bearing on anything that happened before it was passed.
It is not retroactive, so you bringing it up while we are talking about events from the 1940's means nothing.

US Army Lt William Calley comes to mind.
He was convicted for his role in leading the My Lai massacre during the vietnam war.

So Smedley Butler wrote a book and expressed his opinion. That does not make it fact.

And dont give me the line about him being a highly decorated Marine.
I know who he was, and I also know that he was the commandant of the Marine Corps for a while.

Was he lying?
I dont know.
He gave his opinion of what he did, and the reasons for the actions, but that doesnt make it an undeniable fact.

The Definitive List of US terrorism/war crimes - Lord, let's hope it is
http://able2know.org/topic/160696-1