JTT
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The really unbelievable thing in all this is that there has been/is no move afoot [that I know of] to bring these guys to justice.

That is just so god-damn banana republic! Where is the rule of law? Where is the much vaunted sense of personal responsibility? Where is the everyone is equal before the law?

This is no different than having an all powerful monarch.

Y'all sure as hell don't have much respect for the Constitution!
spendius
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 05:38 pm
We graciously assumed Iraqis were intelligent and would have welcomed the invasion with flower petals strewn before the tanks as I think most of us would have done in the circumstances. I certainly would. When has "The Yanks are coming" ever been bad news?

Okay--so we were wrong. We were projecting.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 05:42 pm
@JTT,
The Bush administration got away with crimes against humanity and ignoring the Geneva Conventions, and our other two branches of government didn't protect our country or the rest of the world.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 05:46 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
That is just so god-damn banana republic!


If you buy the products of banana republics to get the jump on your fellow Americans it becomes necessary to become a banana republic to compete with them. Surely?

Is your lifestyle dependent on the minimum wage not applying to every human being whilst you go around looking good being in favour of it.

Put a sock in it!!

Are only Americans equal before the law? And probably not all of them I shouldn't wonder.
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:52 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
When has "The Yanks are coming" ever been bad news?


Dripping sarcasm I presume.

You may well have never had the chance, Spendi, being the object of shock and awe. You don't use shock and awe when you are trying to help people.
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:56 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
If you buy the products of banana republics to get the jump on your fellow Americans it becomes necessary to become a banana republic to compete with them. Surely?


That isn't the part that is banana republic. Regardless, this is nonsense.

Quote:
Is your lifestyle dependent on the minimum wage not applying to every human being whilst you go around looking good being in favour of it.


Not in the least.

Quote:
Are only Americans equal before the law?


No, Blair and his cronies should be held accountable too. Being a lapdog doesn't provide cover from war crimes.




0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:57 pm
@JTT,
This is the same country (US) that continues to claim that we are careful about collateral damage. When our air force uses fire and napalm bombs, we are careful about collateral damage is an oxymoron. We heard these statements early during GW Bush's war in Iraq.
okie
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Here are the facts from CNN:

There is where your post starts going downhill, ci. Facts from CNN, ha ha.

Quote:

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

Bush is absolutely right. What was Bush to do, go do his own spying as well as being president too? Was he not supposed to take the advice of his own CIA?

True, if you repeat lies enough times, it becomes accepted, and that is exactly what has happened with liberals and Democrats lying about Bush.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:11 pm
@okie,
okie, Don't flatter yourself about factual knowledge; you lack any knowledge about history. Rather than providing your personal opinion
Quote:
There is where your post starts going downhill, ci. Facts from CNN, ha ha.
, you need to show by credible evidence what they say is not true. You do not have any idea what debate is about. Your position in a high school debate will only bring laughter from the kids and teachers. Try, if you can, to stick with the issue being discussed, rather than attacking the source, and the information they provide.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
During the Wars of Religion is France, there was no difference between the way some of the Christians behaved and the manner in which members of the Red Guard conducted themselves during Mao's Cultural Revolution. Both defaced buildings of great architectural merit.

Christian missionaries have done violence to cultures across the world, depriving many peoples of their languages, gods, philosophies, weltanschauungs, even their methods of agriculture to satisfy their own internal needs to bring others to the Christian god.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm surprised that it was only 935 false statements. That crew would lie about what they ate for breakfast.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:31 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The really unbelievable thing in all this is that there has been/is no move afoot [that I know of] to bring these guys to justice.


There was. The effort went nowhere. Probably because the war lobby and the corporate mercenaries that brought it about are so powerful.
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:22 pm
@okie,
Quote:
What was Bush to do, go do his own spying as well as being president too? Was he not supposed to take the advice of his own CIA?


This is why you are not to be trusted, Okie. This is illustrative of why you don't have the mental prowess nor the degree of fairness to look at the whole issue.

He could start with his Sec of State, Colon Powell, and whatever the hell that little lying bitch, Condi Rice, was at that time.

The video of those bald-faced liars:

Powell and Rice assure everyone Iraq is NO THREAT pre-9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1X-I-38lrU


Quote:

Colin Powell said Iraq was not a threat
22 Sept 2003
Writing in the Daily Mirror, John Pilger reveals that both US Secretary of State Colin Powell and Bush's closest adviser Condaleeza Rice said, in 2001, that Saddam Hussein was effectively disarmed and no threat - putting the lie to their own propaganda.

Exactly one year ago, Tony Blair told Parliament: "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programme is active, detailed and growing.
"The policy of containment is not working. The weapons of mass destruction programme is not shut down. It is up and running now."

Not only was every word of this false, it was part of a big lie invented in Washington within hours of the attacks of September 11 2001 and used to hoodwink the American public and distract the media from the real reason for attacking Iraq. "It was 95 per cent charade," a former senior CIA analyst told me.

An investigation of files and archive film for my TV documentary Breaking The Silence, together with interviews with former intelligence officers and senior Bush officials have revealed that Bush and Blair knew all along that Saddam Hussein was effectively disarmed.

Both Colin Powell, US Secretary of State, and Condoleezza Rice, President Bush's closest adviser, made clear before September 11 2001 that Saddam Hussein was no threat - to America, Europe or the Middle East.

In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

This is the very opposite of what Bush and Blair said in public.

Powell even boasted that it was the US policy of "containment" that had effectively disarmed the Iraqi dictator - again the very opposite of what Blair said time and again. On May 15 2001, Powell went further and said that Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years". America, he said, had been successful in keeping him "in a box".

Two months later, Condoleezza Rice also described a weak, divided and militarily defenceless Iraq. "Saddam does not control the northern part of the country," she said. "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

So here were two of Bush's most important officials putting the lie to their own propaganda, and the Blair government's propaganda that subsequently provided the justification for an unprovoked, illegal attack on Iraq. The result was the deaths of what reliable studies now put at 50,000 people, civilians and mostly conscript Iraqi soldiers, as well as British and American troops. There is no estimate of the countless thousands of wounded.

In a torrent of propaganda seeking to justify this violence before and during the invasion, there were occasional truths that never made headlines. In April last year, Condoleezza Rice described September 11 2001 as an "enormous opportunity" and said America "must move to take advantage of these new opportunities."

Taking over Iraq, the world's second biggest oil producer, was the first such opportunity.

At 2.40pm on September 11, according to confidential notes taken by his aides, Donald Rumsfeld, the Defense Secretary, said he wanted to "hit" Iraq - even though not a shred of evidence existed that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the attacks on New York and Washington. "Go massive," the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not." Iraq was given a brief reprieve when it was decided instead to attack Afghanistan. This was the "softest option" and easiest to explain to the American people - even though not a single September 11 hijacker came from Afghanistan. In the meantime, securing the "big prize", Iraq, became an obsession in both Washington and London.

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=229



JTT
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:25 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
There was. The effort went nowhere.


But Roger Clements may do jail time for lying to Congress. Go figure.




BANANA REPUBLIC !!!
okie
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:27 pm
@JTT,
JTT, aren't you the same one that has accused Bush of bringing down the towers?

Ther is no hope of debating JTT, folks, with any hope of talking reasonably with evidence.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:29 pm
@okie,
Look who's talking about evidence; the purveyor of misinformation from history.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:29 pm
@okie,
Quote:
There is where your post starts going downhill, ci. Facts from CNN, ha ha.


This is where your integrity, such as it is, takes another massive hit, Okie. If you had bothered to read this, you might have noted,

Quote:
conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:33 pm
@okie,
Quote:
JTT, aren't you the same one that has accused Bush of bringing down the towers?


So your memory is as bad as your sense of honesty, eh, Okie. I told you some time ago that that little nugget of falsehood that seems to be trapped in your brain was untrue.

You just can't get these things out o your brain even when the facts are staring you full in the face.

Quote:
with any hope of talking reasonably with evidence.


Just what evidence might you be referring to? Did you skip both the video and the text?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:35 pm
@JTT,
Maybe, okie needs a still picture; videos might play too fast for his brain to comprehend.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:43 pm
@JTT,
My apologies if you were not the one pushing that conspiracy theory here.
 

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