Obama '08?

@talk72000,

I honestly wonder if some of these militant righties wouldn't be much happier if they reached down, encircled the door knob with their dominant hand and let themselves out of their closets.

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It ought to be obvious to you, Cicerone, that our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a consequence of the war previously declared and waged against us by those 21st century Muslim Sharia Law fanatics who would destroy us if we let them. A few years ago, I posted much valid evidence on this same subject. I can post it all again, if you ask me to.

Self-defense against self-declared mass murderers is moral, ethical, and lawful. We are not waging war against innocent Muslims. We are waging war against guilty Muslims. While we have killed inocent Muslims while waging war against the guilty Muslims, the blame for that is on:
(1) our lack of competence to always tell the difference; and,
(2) the fact that the guilty Muslims began waging war on us way before we began waging war on them.

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@ican711nm,

You're not making any sense; common sense. We don't engage wars with countries based on a few fanatics who happens to reside in their country.

We also shouldn't start wars when the only evidence our president has is unreliable intelligence on WMDs while UN Inspectors are looking for them.

Your love of war only creates more animosity with our Muslim friends.

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

While we have killed inocent Muslims while waging war against the guilty Muslims, the blame for that is on:
(1) our lack of competence to always tell the difference; and,

It's because you really don't give a rat's ass. The proportionality, which is always so far out of whack, tells us that. That you sustained an immoral embargo that costs the lives of half a million Iraqi kids also tells us that.

Quote:

(2) the fact that the guilty Muslims began waging war on us way before we began waging war on them.

That is a flat out lie. The US and the Brits overthrew the government of Iran in the mid-fifties and you were messing around in the Middle East long before that.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Ican wrote: However, a large minority or possibly a majority of Muslims in this 21st century are violent and/or homophobic.

Quote:

Several sources I checked show there are some 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

Given this, Ican, you'd better forget about visiting pretty much any country in the world.

1 Reply

@JTT,

And he's not even safe in the US. It's estimated there are over 5-million Muslims in the US.

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@cicerone imposter,

The problem is no longer Muslims or Christians or Jews. The problem is simply that there are too many humans on the planet.

BTW, I saw two Muslim women yesterday in my small corner of Massachusetts. One was getting her driver's license and the other was walking down the street with her husband and several children. That was a family that needed birth control, not because they are Muslims but because they had far too many children.

1 Reply

QUESTIONS

"the US and the Brits overthrew the government of Iran in the mid-fifties."

WHAT IRANIAN GOVERNMENT DID THE US AND BRITON ALLEGEDLY OVERTHROW?

WHAT IRANIAN GOVERNMENT DID THE US AND BRITON ALLEGEDLY SUBSEQUENTLY ESTABLISH ?

the US was "messing around in the Middle East long before that."

WHERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST WAS THE US MESSING AROUND BEFORE THE ALLEGED OVERTHROW OF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT IN THE MID FIFTIES?

WAS IT THE US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL?

WAS IT THE US DRILLING FOR OIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

WAS IT THE US PAYING FOR DRILLING FOR OIL TO THE MIDDLE EAST GOVERNMENTS IN WHOSE COUNTRIES WE DRILLED?

WAS IT THE US PAYING FOR THE OIL LIFTED TO THE MIDDLE EAST GOVERNMENTS IN WHOSE COUNTRIES WE LIFTED OIL ?

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

The problem is no longer Muslims or Christians or Jews. The problem is simply that there are too many humans on the planet.

BTW, I saw two Muslim women yesterday in my small corner of Massachusetts. One was getting her driver's license and the other was walking down the street with her husband and several children. That was a family that needed birth control, not because they are Muslims but because they had far too many children.

pom, surely you would know that population growth is far higher for Islamic cultures and countries. I believe it is probably part of the Islamic strategy to gain more political control of much of the world. If you don't believe it, visit Great Britain and some of the other European countries and see what is going on. And they are beginning to grow faster here in this country, and probably will gather more steam in that direction.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

(S)urely you would know that population growth is far higher for Islamic cultures and countries. I believe it is probably part of the Islamic strategy to gain more political control of much of the world. If you don't believe it, visit Great Britain and some of the other European countries and see what is going on. And they are beginning to grow faster here in this country, and probably will gather more steam in that direction.

Can you cite any data for that claim? I did some searching and found evidence that contradicts your assertion. But you must have access to other statistics which you can post.
Can you put that up tomorrow? Thanks.

1 Reply

ican asks

Quote:

"the US and the Brits overthrew the government of Iran in the mid-fifties."

WHAT IRANIAN GOVERNMENT DID THE US AND BRITON ALLEGEDLY OVERTHROW?

WHAT IRANIAN GOVERNMENT DID THE US AND BRITON ALLEGEDLY SUBSEQUENTLY ESTABLISH ?

It's no secret--it's widely known. The CIA guys published books about it. The US and Britain overthrew Mohammed Mosaddegh, because he wanted to nationalize the very one-sided deal for oil the Brits had imposed on the country in 1913. We dragooned the Shah into it and lavishly backed him and his hated secret police for the next quarter century for going along with the coup. Go to wikipedia and read the article on Mosaddegh if you don't believe it--there's a lot of detail there.

Incidentally, that's not the only country or free election we overthrew--American Fruit, which ran Guatemala as its private fiefdom feared Jacobo Arbenz, who wanted a better deal for the country, and had him ousted in the 50s. Military coups continued in the country, and in the 70s the right-wing evangelical Christian dictator Efrain Rios Montt, tacitly backed by the Reagan administration, was notably foul, committing genocide on the indigenous Maya Indians.

Okie's hero, Dwight Eisenhower, boasted in one of his autobiographies of how he had subverted the peace accord between Ho and the French in Vietnam by installing what amounted to a puppet government in the South and calling off the elections the accords had set up, which were to determine the future of the country.

We have a history, ican, of subverting other people's elections, if we don't like what we think the results will be, and the results have often beeen violent (and caused far huger jproblems for us decades later, in Iran and Vietnam).

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Here is the answer, sans your rude 18 point type:

Mohammad Mosaddegh (Persian: محمد مصدّق, IPA: [mohæmˈmæd(-e) mosædˈdeɣ] ( listen)* also Mossadegh, Mosaddeq, Mossadeq, Mosadeck, or Musaddiq) (19 May 1882 – 5 March 1967) was the democratically elected[1][2][3][4] Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 when he was overthrown in a coup d'état backed by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

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@MontereyJack,

Wasn't British Petroleum a player in that?

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[applause to MJ & POM]

I wondered how long it would take before someone replied to Ican. It's not like there's a shortage of Americans on A2K.

Where were all the others? Where was Cycloptichorn, Failures Art, Farmerman, ... .

Why is there such a profound ignorance, or maybe the best description is a studied indifference, of the actions of the US government, your government?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Did Hillary lie or "misspeak" when she said she was under fire in Bosnia? LIE
Did John Kerry lie or did he "misspeak" when he claimed he was in Cambodia, when it was "burned into his memory"? LIE

Obama misspoke in my opinion

let's not forget another politicians lie

http://synthesis.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mission-accomplished.png

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@djjd62,

The entire spin created about Bush declaring Mission Accomplished was frankly silly in my opinion. Anyone with half a brain would know what the man meant and that it was accurate. In no way did he believe the entire job was done, but the initial mission was successful in terms of entering Iraq and kicking Hussein out.

1 Reply

@okie,

it's still fun to mock the douchebag

i wish obama would do something so glaring, other than just being a crappy president that is

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Something about the flight suit bush wore somehow reminds me of engineer's latest thread: http://able2know.org/topic/160255-1

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