joefromchicago
 
  3  
Sat 9 Jan, 2010 07:16 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Anymore I come right out and ask people straight up, and a surprising number of people here on this forum cannot answer. I will try you. Are you a Marxist? After all, alot of Obama's ideas are bent in that direction, and many of his mentors and heros were, so how about you, are you? After all, things aren't leftward enough for you, you admit that, and obviously where does one wind up when they go leftward far enough?

No, I am not a Marxist. As I have explained before on this forum, I'm an anarcho-pessimist.

okie wrote:
Your philosophy and politicians that think like you, Joe, how dense can you be?

I don't know. You've set a standard that would be hard to approach.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Sat 9 Jan, 2010 07:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually, that's the crux with any centrist policy - it's just fuzzy.

I'm not sure if that's the case with every centrist policy but it is certainly true with respect to Obama's policies.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Sat 9 Jan, 2010 07:46 pm
My practical definition of a socialist is: any person who wants government to own more of the means of production, and private individuals and organizations to own less.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 9 Jan, 2010 07:48 pm
@joefromchicago,
I totally agree; Obama is not centrist at all even though he promised decidedly centrist meme during his campaign, and even his appointments to his cabinet are more centrist than liberal or far left.

Can't blame him for going further left when the GOP has turned into the No Party, but what is more interesting is how the voters will change the ratio in congress this year.



0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 12:40 pm
Quote:
Judicial Watch Announces List of Washington's "Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians" for 2009

Please accept my wishes for a Happy New Year. As many of you know, it has become something of a New Year's tradition for Judicial Watch to comb through its files for the year to determine which politicians earn the dubious distinction of being the most corrupt in Washington. The following is Judicial Watch's 2009 "top ten" list in alphabetical order:

1. Senator Christopher Dodd (D-CT): This marks two years in a row for Senator Dodd, who made the 2008 "Ten Most Corrupt" list for his corrupt relationship with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and for accepting preferential treatment and loan terms from Countrywide Financial, a scandal which still dogs him. In 2009, the scandals kept coming for the Connecticut Democrat. In 2009, Judicial Watch filed a Senate ethics complaint against Dodd for undervaluing on his Senate Finan cial Disclosure forms a property he owns in Ireland. Judicial Watch's complaint forced Dodd to amend the forms. However, press reports suggest the property to this day remains undervalued. Judicial Watch also alleges in the complaint that Dodd obtained a sweetheart deal for the property in exchange for his assistance in obtaining a presidential pardon (during the Clinton administration) and other favors for a long-time friend and business associate. The false financial disclosure forms were part of the cover-up. Dodd remains the head the Senate Banking Committee.

2. Senator John Ensign (R-NV): A number of scandals popped up in 2009 involving public officials who conducted illicit affairs, and then attempted to cover them up with hush payments and favors, an obvious abuse of power. The year's worst offender might just be Nevada Republican Senator John Ensign. Ensign admitted in June to an extramarital affair with the wife of one of his staff members, who then allegedly obtained special favors from the Nevada Republican in exchange for his silence. According to The New York Times: "The Justice Department and the Senate Ethics Committee are expected to conduct preliminary inquiries into whether Senator John Ensign violated federal law or ethics rules as part of an effort to conceal an affair with the wi fe of an aide…" The former staffer, Douglas Hampton, began to lobby Mr. Ensign's office immediately upon leaving his congressional job, despite the fact that he was subject to a one-year lobbying ban. Ensign seems to have ignored the law and allowed Hampton lobbying access to his office as a payment for his silence about the affair. (These are potentially criminal offenses.) It looks as if Ensign misused his public office (and taxpayer resources) to cover up his sexual shenanigans.

CORRUPTION CHRONICLES
o Napolitano Touts Air Safety After Bomb Attempt
o Illegal Alien Says Drug Sentence Too Cruel
o Politician Pays Girlfriend $340k
o Coal Towns Mired In Public Corruption
o U.S. Intel Failures Helped Terrorist
o Court Lets Gov. Hide Public Biz

3. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA): Judicial Watch is investigating a $12 million TARP cash injection provided to the Boston-based OneUnited Bank at the urging of Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank. As reported in the January 22, 2009, edition of the Wall Street Journal, the Treasury Department indicated it would only provide funds to healthy banks to jump-start lending. Not only was OneUnited Bank in massive financial turmoil, but it was also "under attack from its regulators for allegations of poor lending practices and executive-pay abuses, including owning a Porsche for its executives' use." Rep. Frank admitted he spoke to a "federal regulator," and Treasury granted the funds. (The bank continues to flounder despite Frank's intervention for federal dollars.) Moreover, Judicial Watch uncovered documents in 2009 that showed that members of Congress for years were aware that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were playing fast and loose with accounting issues, risk assessment issues and executive compensation issues, even as liberals led by Rep. Frank continued to block attempts to rein in the two Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs). For example, during a hearing on September 10, 2003 , before the House Committee on Financial Services considering a Bush administration proposal to further regulate Fannie and Freddie, Rep. Frank stated: "I want to begin by saying that I am glad to consider the legislation, but I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis. That is, in my view, the two Government Sponsored Enterprises we are talking about here, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not in a crisis. We have recently had an accounting problem with Freddie Mac that has led to people being dismissed, as appears to be appropriate. I do not think at this point there is a problem with a threat to the Treasury." Frank received $42,350 in campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac between 1989 and 2008. Frank also engaged in a relationship with a Fannie Mae Executive while servi ng on the House Banking Committee, which has jurisdiction over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

4. Secretary of Treasury Timothy Geithner: In 2009, Obama Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner admitted that he failed to pay $34,000 in Social Security and Medicare taxes from 2001-2004 on his lucrative salary at the International Monetary Fund (IMF), an organization with 185 member countries that oversees the global financial system. (Did we mention Geithner now runs the IRS?) It wasn't until President Obama tapped Geithner to head the Treasury Department that he paid back most of the money, although the IRS kindly waived the hefty penalties. In March 2009, Geithner also came under fire for his handling of the AIG bonus scandal, where the company used $165 million of its bailout funds to pay out executive bonuses, resulting in a massive public backlash. Of course as h ead of the New York Federal Reserve, Geithner helped craft the AIG deal in September 2008. However, when the AIG scandal broke, Geithner claimed he knew nothing of the bonuses until March 10, 2009. The timing is important. According to CNN: "Although Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told congressional leaders on Tuesday that he learned of AIG's impending $160 million bonus payments to members of its troubled financial-products unit on March 10, sources tell TIME that the New York Federal Reserve informed Treasury staff that the payments were imminent on Feb. 28. That is ten days before Treasury staffers say they first learned 'full details' of the bonus plan, and three days before the [Obama] Administration launched a new $30 billion infusion of cash for AIG." Thro w in another embarrassing disclosure in 2009 that Geithner employed "household help" ineligible to work in the United States, and it becomes clear why the Treasury Secretary has earned a spot on the "Ten Most Corrupt Politicians in Washington" list.

5. Attorney General Eric Holder: Tim Geithner can be sure he won't be hounded about his tax-dodging by his colleague Eric Holder, US Attorney General. Judicial Watch strongly opposed Holder because of his terrible ethics record, which includes: obstructing an FBI investigation into the theft of nuclear secrets from Los Alamos Nuclear Laboratory; rejecting multiple requests for an independent counsel to investigate alleged fundraising abuses by then-Vice President Al Gore in the Clinton White House; undermining the criminal investigation of President Clinton by Kenneth Starr in the midst of the Lewinsky investigation; and planning the violent raid to seize then-six-year-old Elian Gonzalez at gunpoint in order to return him t o Castro's Cuba. Moreover, there is his soft record on terrorism. Holder bypassed Justice Department procedures to push through Bill Clinton's scandalous presidential pardons and commutations, including those for 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican terrorist group that orchestrated approximately 120 bombings in the United States, killing at least six people and permanently maiming dozens of others, including law enforcement officers. His record in the current administration is no better. As he did during the Clinton administration, Holder continues to ignore serious incidents of corruption that could impact his political bosses at the White House. For example, Holder has refused to investigate charges that the Obama political machine traded VIP access to the White House in exchange for campaign contributions"a scheme eerily similar to one hatched by Holder's former boss, Bill Clinton in the 1990s. The Holder Justice Department also came under fire for dropping a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party. On Election Day 2008, Black Panthers dressed in paramilitary garb threatened voters as they approached polling stations. Holder has also failed to initiate a comprehensive Justice investigation of the notorious organization the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), which is closely tied to President Obama. There were allegedly more than 400,000 fraudulent ACORN voter registrations in the 2008 campaign. And then there were the journalist videos catching ACORN Housing workers advising undercover reporters on how to evade tax, immigration, and child prostitution laws. Holder's controversial decisions on new rights for terrorists and his attacks on previous efforts to combat terrorism remind many of the fact that his former law firm has provided and continues to provide pro bono representation to terrorists at Guantanamo Bay. Holder's politicization of the Justice Department makes one long for the days of Alberto Gonzales.

6. Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (D-IL)/ Senator Roland Burris (D-IL): One of the most serious scandals of 2009 involved a scheme by former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich to sell President Obama's then-vacant Senate seat to the highest bidder. Two men caught smack dab in the middle of the scandal: Senator Roland Burris, who ultimately got the job, and Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. According to the Chicago Sun-Times, emissaries for Jesse Jackson Jr., named "Senate Candidate A" in the Blagojevich indictment, reportedly offered $1.5 million to Blagojevich during a fundraiser if he named Jackson Jr. to Obama's seat. Three days later federal authorities arrested Blagojevich. Burris, for his part, apparently lied ab out his contacts with Blagojevich, who was arrested in December 2008 for trying to sell Obama's Senate seat. According to Reuters: "Roland Burris came under fresh scrutiny…after disclosing he tried to raise money for the disgraced former Illinois governor who named him to the U.S. Senate seat once held by President Barack Obama...In the latest of those admissions, Burris said he looked into mounting a fundraiser for Rod Blagojevich"later charged with trying to sell Obama's Senate seat"at the same time he was expressing interest to the then-governor's aides about his desire to be appointed." Burris changed his story five times regarding his contacts with Blagojevich prior to the Illinois governor appointing him to the U.S. Senate. Three of those changing explana tions came under oath.

7. President Barack Obama: During his presidential campaign, President Obama promised to run an ethical and transparent administration. However, in his first year in office, the President has delivered corruption and secrecy, bringing Chicago-style political corruption to the White House. Consider just a few Obama administration "lowlights" from year one: Even before President Obama was sworn into office, he was interviewed by the FBI for a criminal investigation of former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's scheme to sell the President's former Senate seat to the highest bidder. (Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and slumlord Valerie Jarrett, both from Chicago, are also tangled up in the Blagojevich scandal.) Moreover, the Obama administration made the startling claim that the Privacy Act does not apply to the White House. The Obama White House believes it can violate the privacy rights of American citizens without any legal consequences or accountability. President Obama boldly proclaimed that "transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency," but his administration is addicted to secrecy, stonewalling far too many of Judicial Watch's Freedom of Information Act requests and is refusing to make public White House visitor logs as federal law requires. The Obama administration turned the National E ndowment of the Arts (as well as the agency that runs the AmeriCorps program) into propaganda machines, using tax dollars to persuade "artists" to promote the Obama agenda. According to documents uncovered by Judicial Watch, the idea emerged as a direct result of the Obama campaign and enjoyed White House approval and participation. President Obama has installed a record number of "czars" in positions of power. Too many of these individuals are leftist radicals who answer to no one but the president. And too many of the czars are not subject to Senate confirmation (which raises serious constitutional questions). Under the President's bailout schemes, the federal government continues to appropriate or control"through fiat and threats"large sectors of the private economy, prompting conservative columnist George Will to write: "The administration's central activity"the political allocation of wealth and opportunity"is not merely susceptible to corruption, it is corruption." Government-run healthcare and car companies, White House coercion, uninvestigated ACORN corruption, debasing his office to help Chicago cronies, attacks on conservative media and the private sector, unprecedented and dangerous new rights for terrorists, perks for campaign donors"this is Obama's "ethics" record"and we haven't even gotten through the first year of his presidency.

8. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA): At the heart of the corruption problem in Washington is a sense of entitlement. Politicians believe laws and rules (even the U.S. Constitution) apply to the rest of us but not to them. Case in point: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her excessive and boorish demands for military travel. Judicial Watch obtained documents from the Pentagon in 2008 that suggest Pelosi has been treating the Air Force like her own personal airline. These documents, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, include internal Pentagon email correspondence detailing attempts by Pentagon staff to accommodate Pelosi's numerous requests for military escorts and military aircraft, as well as the speak er's 11th hour cancellations and changes. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also came under fire in April 2009, when she claimed she was never briefed about the CIA's use of the waterboarding technique during terrorism investigations. The CIA produced a report documenting a briefing with Pelosi on September 4, 2002, that suggests otherwise. Judicial Watch also obtained documents, including a CIA Inspector General report, which further confirmed that Congress was fully briefed on the enhanced interrogation techniques. Aside from her own personal transgressions, Nancy Pelosi has ignored serious incidents of corruption within her own party, including many of the individuals on this list. (See Rangel, Murtha, Jesse Jackson, Jr., etc.)

9. Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) and the rest of the PMA Seven: Rep. John Murtha made headlines in 2009 for all the wrong reasons. The Pennsylvania congressman is under federal investigation for his corrupt relationship with the now-defunct defense lobbyist PMA Group. PMA, founded by a former Murtha associate, has been the congressman's largest campaign contributor. Since 2002, Murtha has raised $1.7 million from PMA and its clients. And what did PMA and its clients receive from Murtha in return for their generosity? Earmarks"over ten million dollars in earmarks. In fact, even with all of the attention surrounding his alleged influence peddling, Murtha kept at it. Following an FBI raid of PMA's offices earlier in 2009, Murtha continued to seek congressional earmarks for PMA clients, while also hitting them up for campaign contributions. According to The Hill, in April, "Murtha reported receiving contributions from three former PMA clients for whom he requested earmarks in the pending appropriations bills." When it comes to the PMA scandal, Murtha is not alone. As many as six other Members of Congress are currently under scrutiny according to The Washington Post. They include: Peter J. Visclosky (D-IN.), James P. Moran Jr. (D-VA), Norm Dicks (D-WA.), Marcy Kaptur (D-OH), C.W. Bill Young (R-FL.) and Todd Tiahrt (R-KS.). Of course rather than investiga te this serious scandal, according to Roll Call, House Democrats circled the wagons, "cobbling together a defense to offer political cover to their rank and file." The Washington Post also reported in 2009 that Murtha's nephew received $4 million in Defense Department no-bid contracts: "Newly obtained documents...show Robert Murtha mentioning his influential family connection as leverage in his business dealings and holding unusual power with the military."

10. Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY): Rangel, the man in charge of writing tax policy for the entire country, has yet to adequately explain how he could possibly "forget" to pay taxes on $75,000 in rental income he earned from his off-shore rental property. He also faces allegations that he improperly used his influence to maintain ownership of highly coveted rent-controlled apartments in Harlem, and misused his congressional office to fundraise for his private Rangel Center by preserving a tax loophole for an oil drilling company in exchange for funding. On top of all that, Rangel recently amended his financial disclosure reports, which doubled his reported wealth. (He somehow "forgot" about $1 million in assets.) And what did h e do when the House Ethics Committee started looking into all of this? He apparently resorted to making "campaign contributions" to dig his way out of trouble. According to WCBS TV, a New York CBS affiliate: "The reigning member of Congress' top tax committee is apparently 'wrangling' other politicos to get him out of his own financial and tax troubles...Since ethics probes began last year the 79-year-old congressman has given campaign donations to 119 members of Congress, including three of the five Democrats on the House Ethics Committee who are charged with investigating him." Charlie Rangel should not be allowed to remain in Congress, let alone serve as Chairman of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, and he knows it. That's why he felt the need to disburse campaign contributions to Ethics Committee members and other congressional colleagues.

okie
 
  -2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 02:19 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

okie wrote:
Anymore I come right out and ask people straight up, and a surprising number of people here on this forum cannot answer. I will try you. Are you a Marxist? After all, alot of Obama's ideas are bent in that direction, and many of his mentors and heros were, so how about you, are you? After all, things aren't leftward enough for you, you admit that, and obviously where does one wind up when they go leftward far enough?

No, I am not a Marxist. As I have explained before on this forum, I'm an anarcho-pessimist.

Then why did you vote for one, namely Obama, that harbors Marxist sympathies and aspirations, and why do you complain that he and the Democrats are not going far enough left? You might want to figure that out before the next election. Just a suggestion.

Get a grip Joe. You could start by defining for all of us what in the world is an anarcho-pessimist, or do you even know?
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 02:25 pm
@ican711nm,
Good post, ican. Note 9 out the 10 most corrupt are all Democrats. In regard to Harry Reid, who did not make the list but should have ahead of Senator John Ensign of Nevada, after all Reid has to be the most crooked senator of Nevada, with his land deals and sweeheart deals for some of his friends.

By the way, in regard to Reid, I agree with Michael Steele 100% when he said the following about Reid. teeny I hope you are reading about this and your wonderful congressmen like Reid in Washington that like blacks on their plantation to be used, but nothing more. I keep pointing that out, but Reid is a good example. Steele has it right.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/10/reid-mounted-aggressive-campaign-minimize-obama-negro-comment/

"Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele on Sunday called on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to resign for describing Barack Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign as "light-skinned" with "no Negro dialect" unless he wants to have one.

Steele also accused Democrats of hypocrisy on the matter.

"There is this standard where Democrats feel that they can say these things and they can apologize when it comes from the mouths of their own. But if it comes from anyone else, it is racism," Steele told "Fox News Sunday.""

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 03:46 pm
@okie,
Yes, by all means let's count the members of congress who were identified as the "most corrupt."

Quote:
The 13 members of Congress recommended for investigation by the watchdog group are:

Sen. Bill Frist: The report accuses him of violating federal campaign finance laws in how he disclosed a campaign loan. It also calls for an inquiry over his recent sale of stock in HCA Inc., his family's hospital corporation. The sale has raised questions about possible insider dealing. Frist aides confirmed Friday that the SEC was investigating. They have denied claims of campaign finance violations.

• Rep. Roy Blunt: The report criticizes him for trying to insert provisions into bills that would have benefited, in one case, a client of his lobbyist son and in another case, the employer of his lobbyist girlfriend, now his wife.

• Sen. Conrad Burns: The report says that questions arose over $3 million in appropriations he earmarked for an Indian tribe in Michigan that was a client of lobbyist Abramoff. The senator received substantial campaign contributions from Abramoff and various clients.

"Sen. Burns did nothing wrong, and any accusation to the contrary is pure politics," said James Pendleton, his director of communications. He said Burns had earmarked the appropriation at the request of the Michigan congressional delegation.

• Rep. Bob Ney: The report says the chairman of the House Administration Committee went on a golf outing to Scotland in 2002, arranged by Abramoff, at a time when the congressman was trying to insert a provision into legislation to benefit one of Abramoff's tribal clients.

Ney reported to the House that the trip was paid for entirely by the National Center for Public Policy Research, a conservative think tank, which denied paying any of the costs. Ney has said he had been duped by Abramoff.

• Rep. Tom Feeney: The report says he incorrectly reported that a golf trip to Scotland with Abramoff in 2003 was paid for by the National Center for Public Policy Research, which denied it. A Feeney aide said the congressman had been misled. Questions also have arisen about two other privately funded trips.

• Rep. Richard W. Pombo: He paid his wife and brother $357,325 in campaign funds in the last four years, the report says. He also supported the wind-power industry before the Department of Interior without disclosing that his parents received hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties from wind-power turbines on their ranch.

Brian Kennedy, a spokesman for Pombo, said that "each of the charges is baseless." He called the watchdog group "a Democratic attack group, and all of their charges should be taken with a grain of salt."

• Rep. Maxine Waters: The report cites a December 2004 Los Angeles Times investigation disclosing how members of the congresswoman's family have made more than $1 million in the last eight years by doing business with companies, candidates and causes that Waters has helped. Before publication of the Times investigation last year, Waters declined to be interviewed, but said of her family members: "They do their business, and I do mine."

• Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.): The report says he encountered controversy over disclosures that Pennsylvania taxpayers paid for his children's schooling while they lived in Virginia. Santorum maintained he did nothing wrong, and has pulled his children out of the school, according to reports.

• Reps. Randy "Duke" Cunningham and William J. Jefferson: Both congressional veterans are under federal investigation.

Cunningham, who has announced that he will not run for reelection, faces questions over his dealings with a defense contractor who allegedly overpaid him when he purchased Cunningham's house. Jefferson is under scrutiny for his role in an overseas business deal. Normally the House ethics committee does not hold inquiries while criminal investigations are underway.

• Rep. Charles H. Taylor (R-N.C.): The report says that questions have been raised about his private business interests, including a savings and loan in Asheville, N.C., and personal business interests in Russia.

• Rep. Marilyn N. Musgrave (R-Colo.) and Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.): Both second-term House members encountered criticisms tied to campaign activities, the report says.

Musgrave was accused of misusing her congressional office for campaign purposes. Renzi was accused of financing portions of his 2002 campaign with improper loans.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 03:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Huffington Post:
Quote:
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20 Most Corrupt Members Of Congress: Burns, Frist, Santorum, Doolittle, Jefferson, Harris...
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First Posted: 09-20-06 11:40 AM | Updated: 03-28-08 02:44 AM
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Today, the Center For Responsibility And Ethics In Washington released its second annual survey of the twenty most corrupt members of Congress, aptly named "Beyond DeLay: The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress (and five to watch)."

CREW inventoried the "transgressions" of each member of Congress under the microscope of federal law and congressional rules.

Some highlights:

-The three most corrupt Senate members are the infamous Conrad Burns (R-MT), Bill Frist (R-TN), and Rick Santorum (R-PA)

-Seventeen of the twenty "Most Corrupt" politicians are Republicans

-Four of the "Five Members To Watch" are Republicans

-All but one of the 25 Members of Congress included on the list are up for re-election

The Full List:
Story continues below

Members of the Senate:
Conrad Burns (R-MT)
Bill Frist (R-TN)
Rick Santorum (R-PA)

Members of the House:
Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Ken Calvert (R-CA)
Richard Pombo (R-CA)
John Doolittle (R-CA)
Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
Tom Feeney (R-FL)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Katherine Harris (R-FL)
John Sweeney (R-NY)
William Jefferson (D-LA)
Charles Taylor (R-NC)
Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Gary Miller (R-CA)
Curt Weldon (R-PA)

Five Members to Watch:
Chris Cannon (R-UT)
J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ)
Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
John Murtha (D-PA)
Rep. Don Sherwood (R-PA)


For more information see the official press release here.

Or visit the project website beyonddelay.org.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  0  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 04:01 pm
well there you go, nothing to do but march on washington, Viva La Revolución
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 06:05 pm
@ican711nm,
I think it is ridiculous that all but one mentioned are Dems. There are a load of Reps who should have been on that list as being much worse than the Dems named. For instance, Roy Blunt has a long record of unethical conduct. Why isn't Gingrich on the list? Etc.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 06:06 pm
@okie,
It should be noted that Judicial Watch is basically a right-wing organization.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 06:17 pm
@Advocate,
The real problem with all the conservatives on these threads are 1) they don't remember history, and 2) they think finding a few people on the "other side" with crimes is a one-sided issue.

They already forgot about Tom Delay, the Texas senator who were charged with so many crimes, he's been not seen for several years now.

http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/19640.php
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 07:31 pm
@Advocate,
Judicial Watch has taken on corruption on both sides of the aisle.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 07:33 pm
@okie,
I would think that's a good thing.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 07:34 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

I think it is ridiculous that all but one mentioned are Dems.
It think it is not at all ridiculous, considering the fact that the modern Democratic Party is one of the most corrupt in American history. That of course is an opinion, but it is based upon over 50 years of observation of politics in this country. When a Democrat is caught with corruption, typically other Democrats and their party will circle the wagons, but when Republicans are caught, other Republicans will turn against them and they will be marginalized and very often kicked out of office for good.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 08:04 pm
@okie,
It's not the numbers that counts; it's how their party surround their wagons to protect the guilty.

Let me count the ways...

So, the majority of crimes were committed by conservatives, but since they weren't protected by their party, it's okay. Is that how the reasoning goes?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 10 Jan, 2010 10:54 pm
An interesting case of Republicans supporting crooks involves Nixon. The Reps supported him almost to the bitter end despite many, many, serious crimes. They included attempted arson, bribery, running a burglary ring out of the White House, tax evasion, etc.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Mon 11 Jan, 2010 09:25 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
Then why did you vote for one, namely Obama, that harbors Marxist sympathies and aspirations, and why do you complain that he and the Democrats are not going far enough left? You might want to figure that out before the next election. Just a suggestion.

You wouldn't know a socialist if you found one hiding under your bed -- and you probably have.

okie wrote:
Get a grip Joe. You could start by defining for all of us what in the world is an anarcho-pessimist, or do you even know?

I believe that anarchism is, in theory, the most just method of dealing with socio-political relations between human beings. Unfortunately, I also believe that anarchism rests on the profoundly mistaken notion that humans are fundamentally good. Consequently, while anarchy is the best government, it is also the least viable, because people are, on the whole, irrational, short-sighted, selfish, fearful jerks. That makes me an anarcho-pessimist.
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jan, 2010 09:45 am
Okie and the others here on the right seem to love the big lie. There is NO evidence that Obama has a socialistic bone in his body. But they love to repeat their lies, which I guess persuade a lot of deluded people that there must be something to the false statements.
 

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