cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 12:27 pm
@Bi-Polar Bear,
2 Cents 2 Cents Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Laughing
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 12:46 pm
@ican711nm,
With most legislation, there is compromise, which includes earmarks, etc. Perhaps this counters the huge payoffs by special interests.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 01:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

The key is the word, "radical." True Christianity is not radical


One is forced to wonder just how much you know about Christianity... at the time of it's inception, it most certainly WAS radical.

Cycloptichorn

If you believe that loving God first, then others as yourself are radical beliefs and principles, then perhaps you might be confused about what is radical. And actually if you look at the legal system of the United States, I believe it is based upon the spirit of that, and that of the Old Testament law.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 01:42 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
And actually if you look at the legal system of the United States, I believe it is based upon the spirit of that, and that of the Old Testament law.


I'm glad that 'believe' means "I don't know it".
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 01:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"Believe" what you want WH.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 01:47 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:

If you believe that loving God first, then others as yourself are radical beliefs and principles, then perhaps you might be confused about what is radical. And actually if you look at the legal system of the United States, I believe it is based upon the spirit of that, and that of the Old Testament law.


It's funny how there are so many contradictions to this very verse in the same bible.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 02:05 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

"Believe" what you want WH.


I do so, even without your permission - certainly your knowledge of Legal History is better than mine.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 02:12 pm
@okie,
If they way to talk to and treat others is an indication of how you wish to be treated you are one msochistic son of a bitch...
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 03:46 pm
Quote:
BINGE SPENDER Barack Obama is demonstrating just how little he understands basic economics. He believes growing the government at a rapid rate is what causes prosperity, declaring "America must spend our way out of this recession." He also in recent weeks scolded “fat cat bankers,” telling them they "need to loan more money out in order to get our economy going again." Obama’s economic illiteracy is plunging our country into economic ruin.

From bailouts, to company takeovers, healthcare reform and stimulus bills: if it involves greater taxpayer involvement, Obama supports it.

When Obama reported that the Treasury had received back $200 billion in TARP funds, he declared that he planned to spend that money on a second stimulus while paying down the debt. This is patently untrue. America will not be paying down any debt. The Senate is moving to raise the debt ceiling by over $1.8 Trillion. Actually, we will be borrowing a record sum, as Obama mortgages our future to “spend us out of this recession.”

The problem with his policy is that it doesn’t work. Government spending has never created prosperity. Every dollar the government spends must be taken from someone else. Government engages in wealth transfer, not wealth creation. Borrowing money and running sizable deficits is transferring wealth from the future generations, which faces paying off Obama’s credit card. The bill must be paid someday. Obama is robbing future generations in order to support his binge spending.

Obama’s first Stimulus was nothing more than a slush fund of money, used by Democrats to support their liberal pet projects. $6 Million worth of stimulus money lined the pockets of Democratic pollster Mark Penn who used it to create three jobs. $18 Million from the stimulus went to fund Obama’s recovery website, which reported on jobs saved and stimulus money spent in Congressional districts that do not exist. With that kind of success rate it should surprise no one that Obama’s approval rating has plummeted to 45%. American voters understand government spending is not the recipe for recovery.

Recently, Obama met with leading bankers, individuals he referred to as “fat cats.” In his meeting Obama pushed these banks to lend more and loosen up their capital requirements on loans. Nobody is arguing that these banks need or deserve the outrageous bonuses they have been pocketing after Obama bailed them out with the taxpayers’ dime, but the idea that they need to lend more is ludicrous.

The reason the housing market collapsed in the first place was because Congress pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to loan nearly half of their assets to families with incomes below the national median. Coupled with the Community Reinvestment Act, which forced banks to make imprudent loans, overzealous lending created an artificial housing bubble that collapsed. After the CRA was expanded in 1995, bank loans going to low- and moderate-income families increased by 80%. These were the same banks that were later attacked for being predatory for taking undue risks. They were making poor loans, but it was at the behest of a federal government that was trying to artificially increase home ownership amongst people not equipped for the responsibilities of home ownership.

Fast forward back to today, Obama is now encouraging banks to make more loans, asking banks to take more risk. This is the same Obama who has criticized banks for making risky loans in the past. By creating business climate uncertainty Obama is not helping our country to stabilize. Obama’s conflicting messages are confusing. Which “Obama” are banks suppose to listen to; the one who demonizes risky behavior, or the one who demonizes banks for sitting on their assets?

Obama’s meeting with bank leaders was simply political theatre as was his recent “jobs” summit. Jobs aren’t created by bureaucrats sitting around talking. They are created when people are free to innovate and create without undue fear of erratic government behavior.

If the government would cut back on its wild spending, cut taxes and promote a stable regulatory environment, the private sector would start creating new jobs

It is more likely that Barack Obama is demonstrating just how much he actually understands basic economics. He knows growing the government at a rapid rate is what causes an economy to tank and be easy pickens for coveters to steal from it (e.g., Hoover-1931 and 1932, and Roosevelt 1933 to 1940). When he is declaring "America must spend our way out of this recession," he is actually attempting to steal not only the property of Americans, but also the economic freedoms of Americans.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 04:07 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

The key is the word, "radical." True Christianity is not radical


One is forced to wonder just how much you know about Christianity... at the time of it's inception, it most certainly WAS radical.

Cycloptichorn

If you believe that loving God first, then others as yourself are radical beliefs and principles, then perhaps you might be confused about what is radical.


Did you even read what I wrote? At the time Christianity came about, that is, during Jesus' (supposed) life, Jesus was a radical. He advocated a complete change of the established system of faith, a total redesign of the power structure as it related to religion. So, every time you call someone a Radical, please keep in mind that the term most certainly applies to your professed diety.

Quote:
And actually if you look at the legal system of the United States, I believe it is based upon the spirit of that, and that of the Old Testament law.


I'll lump this in with most of the things you are incorrect about.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  0  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 05:02 pm
Quote:
Healthcare legislation is a never ending assault on our Constitution. There is NO DEBATE, fix the commerce issue of purchasing private insurance across state lines and address tort reform (both of which congress has the authority) but, stop legislating in areas that "we the people" through our Constitution have not granted congressional power. Not only do you, Congress, continue to discuss and debate an issue you have no authority to legislate, but you are wasting taxpayer dollars each day by not governing in legitimate areas of concern; ie: porous borders, failing postal system, etc.

The legislation itself includes mandates that every individual must purchase health insurance or they will be fined, taxed, or imprisoned. This is unconstitutional, it may sound admirable or fair, but it is trespassing on our individual rights. If the senate wants to forward their efforts of including "unconstitutional terms", they must amend the constitution to give them the authority. Without such an amendment, we as a people must demand that these efforts cease immediately.

LEGISLATE BY THE CONSTITUTION, OR GET OUT OF WASHINGTON. It is amazing that these "so-called" senators took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution."

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 05:05 pm
@ican711nm,
Why is it unconstitutional? Please be specific.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 05:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Why is it unconstitutional? Please be specific.


Is Being Forced To Buy Health Insurance Constitutional?

Please be specific.
Advocate
 
  2  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 05:19 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Why is it unconstitutional? Please be specific.


Is Being Forced To Buy Health Insurance Constitutional?

Please be specific.


Why not? We forced to do a lot of things, including buying auto insurance, filing tax returns, obeying traffic and other laws, clothing oneself, etc.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 06:05 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, have you been drinking heavily today?

Please show me how the US Constitution forces all US citizens to "do a lot of things, including
buying auto insurance, filing tax returns, obeying traffic and other laws, clothing oneself, etc."
ican711nm
 
  0  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 06:08 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
At the time Christianity came about, that is, during Jesus' (supposed) life, Jesus was a radical. He advocated a complete change of the established system of faith, a total redesign of the power structure as it related to religion. So, every time you call someone a Radical, please keep in mind that the term most certainly applies to your professed diety.


A few years ago, I calculated the probability that humans EVOLVED BY CHANCE AND NOT BY DESIGN within a million years from their commnon ancester with the mouse. Human DNA contains 300 more genes than does mouse DNA.

I calculated that probability to be less than 10^(-4,000,000). I wonder what is the probability humans EVOLVED BY DESIGN AND NOT BY CHANCE within a million years from their commnon ancester with the mouse. The difficulty in computing this probability is determining the probability of the pre-existence of a DESIGNER.

Well then what is the probability that our universe as it is now EVOLVED BY CHANCE AND NOT BY DESIGN over the last about several billion years? I expect the probability of that is infintesimal.

So it takes much less faith to believe our universe EVOLVED BY DESIGN AND NOT BY CHANCE than it takes to believe our universe EVOLVED BY CHANCE AND NOT BY DESIGN.

Our universe is currently estimated to be between 12 and 16 billion years old. If it were 14.4 billion years old, then each "day" of its evolution according to the 6 days of Genesis would be about 2.4 billion years. An hour of Genesis would then be about 100 million years. It seems to me that 14.4 billion years is far too short a time for our universe to have EVOLVED BY CHANCE AND NOT BY DESIGN. If our universe did EVOLVE BY DESIGN AND NOT BY CHANCE, then who or what is the nature of the DESIGNER?

Diests believe the DESIGNER designed the whole thing so that it would evolve as it did and not require any additional participation in its evolution after that initial design was complete. Others claim the DESIGNER did subsequently participate in its evolution to correct any previous mistakes or make improvements--much like a human engineer modifies his design as errors are detected, or as he invents improvements. Still others claim that the DESIGNER evolved the whole thing in exactly six earth days, and then subsequently intervened in it's evolution thereafter whenever the DESIGNER perceived a need to do so.

Place your bets!


0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 06:30 pm
@H2O MAN,
See the provisions empowering congress to pass laws that govern us.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 06:40 pm
@Advocate,
That is a non-answer to a direct question.

Are you a member of the Pelosi clan?
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  3  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 07:13 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Please show me how the US Constitution forces all US citizens to "do a lot of things, including
buying auto insurance, filing tax returns, obeying traffic and other laws, clothing oneself, etc."


If I may...

Please refer to Article I, Section 8, of The Constitution of the United States of America.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Dec, 2009 07:41 pm
Please be specific. I see nothing about forcing citizens to buy health insurance.
 

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