Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 03:48 pm
Hillary has just about declared.

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Laughing
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 03:51 pm
What do you think about Obama, Frank?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 04:17 pm
Obama will gain in popularity as he gets more exposure. I will predict that Obama will surpass Hillary in the polls by early next year.
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blatham
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 04:38 pm
Obama spent, so near as I can figure, two years in a Muslim school and two in a Catholic school while in Indonesia. What is the "madrassa" equivalent for Catholic education? Did Joe Lieberman spend any time in a yeshiva? Watch the concentration on the word "madrassa" and recognize this for what it is.

The Times UK gets it right... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2557001,00.html
Quote:
Barack Obama was given a rude awakening to the cut-throat world of presidential politics yesterday after being accused of hiding four years in which he was educated at a madrassa when a teenager.
The claim, made in the conservative Insight magazine, also revealed the Machiavellian scheming of political activists in a presidential race still nearly two years away.

It was aimed at tarnishing Mr Obama's image in the week he announced himself as a White House contender. But the article also claimed that the madrassa allegations came from aides to Hillary Clinton, Mr Obama's main opponent for the Democratic nomination.

This may be wishful thinking on behalf of Republicans. The Clinton camp is determined not to be accused of digging dirt on Mr Obama because they fear such tactics could backfire, given his popularity.

But the Insight allegations represent an exquisite double shot at the Democrats' two leading White House contenders: it implies that Mr Obama, whose middle name is Hussein, is a closet Islamic extremist, and that Mrs Clinton is so rattled by his candidacy she is using underhand tactics to weaken him.


And, so far....
Quote:
Summary: Melanie Morgan, Lee Rodgers, Rush Limbaugh, and John Gibson all forwarded the accusation made by a website controlled by Rev. Sun Myung Moon that Sen. Hillary Clinton was responsible for spreading information linking Sen. Barack Obama to a madrassa, or Muslim school. None of the four cited any evidence, other than the article, that Clinton was responsible for promoting the madrassa story, and the article cited no one by name.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200701200003
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 04:39 pm
The distorted, deceitful Obama hate mail is making the rounds already. Snopes has one of them here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 05:15 pm
I hope the media does its job in keeping John Q Public informed with the truth, and challenge all these false accusations before they become "common knowledge." I hope these mud-slingings prove harmful to the republican party; the voting public must not become party to character assassination - the only tool left for the conservatives.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 05:23 pm
Keep in mind that many of the media outlets these articles originate in are owned by Rev. Moon and his Moonies.

UPI, World &I, The Washington Times, Middle East Times, and Insight are all owned by him.

The Moonies enjoy creating conflict and division. If you haven't looked into what the Moonies have been doing with the 4th estate of this country lately, you should do yourself a favor before relying on the "media" to correct anything.

Start here:

http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/upi-moon.shtml


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 05:25 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
The distorted, deceitful Obama hate mail is making the rounds already. Snopes has one of them here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp


Obama, a radical Muslim? I wonder how many dumb conservatives will believe that.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jan, 2007 07:25 pm
xingu wrote: Obama, a radical Muslim? I wonder how many dumb conservatives will believe that.



Unfortunately, "dumb" also includes democrats and everything else in between.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 02:30 am
From today's Washington Post, page A1

http://i13.tinypic.com/2mnneo4.jpg
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 07:25 am
snood wrote:
What do you think about Obama, Frank?


I absolutely love the guy. He is about as sharp a talker and reasoner as anyone I've seen in public life recently.

So is Hillary, for that matter...and of course, I think Bill Clinton was spectacular.

My feelings are that either Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama will be able to win next November. Our country has grown up considerably in the area of gender and race considerations.

I honestly do not see any particularly strong Republican candidates right now...but world events may shape things more than the quality of the candidates.

I actually have a fear that the scum now in the Oval Office...the people who have been trying to stregnthen the power of the Executive during what they term times of great danger...might try a power play to delay or eliminate the next election. We like to think our country is above an attempt at some kind of extra-constitutional take-over...but NO COUNTRY IS IMMUNE if the wrong kind of people have gotten into power.

We face some serious dangers during the next several years. I would prefer Obama to almost anyone the Republicans can field...and it is close to a toss-up between Obama and Clinton for me...with Clinton just a tiny bit out in front.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 08:46 am
There have been a couple of polls like that (that I've seen), Walter.

One thing that comes to mind for me is that it's just among Democrats. Was it Evan Bayh who was grumbling about how the person most popular amongst Democrats is not necessarily the person who has the best chance of winning the presidency? I'd like to see more non-partisan (Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.) polls that include Clinton and Obama.

Though of course Obama does have to win in the primaries before he'd go anywhere else. I definitely worry about that, that the one who could win the whole shebang can't win the primary.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 09:08 am
Good points, Soz. You may be happy to know the poll Walter provided shows a bigger gap between Hill and Obama than most. PollingReport.com collects lots of polls, that illustrate, IMO, precisely what you're talking about. I haven't built a Nimh-like chart or anything, but in General Election polls; it would appear Obama and Edwards fair better than Hillary against specific opponents... than the Primary numbers would indicate. Much better. There are larger groups of don't know's with Obama of course, but were I you I would be supremely encouraged since lots of people still give a blank stare at the mention of Obama (sad, but true). Check it out.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 09:10 am
I saw a poll on TV this morning that gave Obama 17% support among Dems.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 10:08 am
The other forum I spend a fair bit of time at - which is considered to be "left-leaning" - is leaning toward John Edwards as the Democratic candidate of choice, with a number of comments along the lines of hoping that Obama has the courage not to run this time round.

Interesting how different forums/polls give quite different perspectives of what's going on out there.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 12:18 pm
Poll-wise, Edwards does appear to have the edge over both Obama and Hillary as a General Election Candidate at the moment in more than a few on the page I linked. Personally, I'd write that off to the relatively "unknown" status of Obama and the distaste too many Americans have for Hillary. I'd look for Obama to overcome both as his recognition factor increases.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 12:29 pm
I just spent some time at topix.net reading one of their threads about Obama. I'm really quite amazed at the degree of misinformation making the rounds. It's not that difficult to get the basics right.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jan, 2007 12:44 pm
I'm just registering on Intrade, formerly Tradesports, to buy Obama's stock. The market currently prices him on the expectation that he has a 19 percent chance of Democratic confirmation. That places him second, between Hillary Clinton (48%) and John Edwards (15%). I consider Obama's stock a bargain at its current price.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:53 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
As silly as any concern about a once muslim Obama is, if it is true that he spent four years attending an Indonesian madrassas, I'm afraid he will not be able to easily dismiss the fact (if it is a fact - I really don't know) that he did not previously reveal this part of his past.

No, it is not a fact, which is why the author at Insight was being either very stupid or, more likely, deliberately obtuse to score a political point. After all, who among Insight readers will have read Obama's books? And how many of them would not be all too glad to believe that the new Democratic wonder boy did something bad?

But no, it's not a fact, hence the ridicule. As one TNR commenter aptly commented:

Quote:
Researchers doing a background check? You mean someone hanging out in Kramerbooks on Dupont Circle in DC while waiting for a friend on a cold evening who stumbled across Obama's first book on a big stack outside the bar/cafe area of the store? You mean someone who read the two chapters in the book devoted to/dealing with his mother's marraige to an Indonesian man and his life in the world largest Muslim country?

Wow, quite the background check. Because that would be me last Friday night when I was in town - I stumbled across Dreams of Our Father, and flipped through it for 15 minutes. I guess I've got what it takes to be a highly paid oppo researcher/smear doctor.

In the meantime, may I note that I just love the logic involved in your post. It's great.

Along the same lines (not in terms of the "allegation", obviously, but in terms of the logic involved in the post), all you need is a partisan hack to proclaim, "I have access to information that shows that Person A is a pot-smoking, philandering pederast", and you can go, "If it is a fact that Person A is a pot-smoking, philandering pederast (which I myself don't know), then it is a legitimate concern to raise!"

And on it goes, the allegation being repeated over and again, without anyone apparently wanting to bother spending the ten minutes needed to check the actual info out.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Tue 23 Jan, 2007 09:47 am
Quote:
JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a "madrassa" are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama's school )

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by "researchers connected to Senator Clinton." A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.

He called the story "an obvious right-wing hit job."

Insight stood by its story in a response posted on its Web site Monday afternoon.

The Insight article was cited several times Friday on Fox News and was also referenced by the New York Post, The Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News and a number of political blogs. (Watch how the Obama "gossip" spread )

School not a madrassa
But reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

Fox News executive Bill Shine told CNN "Reliable Sources" anchor Howard Kurtz that some of the network's hosts were simply expressing their opinions and repeatedly cited Insight as the source of the allegations.

Obama has noted in his two books, "Dreams From My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope," that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10.


source
0 Replies
 
 

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