Obama '08?

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I feel comfortable saying, I don't know a single black guy who hasn't been unfairly harassed (at least in their opinion) by cops at some point.

The words IN THEIR OPINION are the important part.
Almost everybody I know thinks they are being harassed by the cops if they get pulled over, does that mean they are.

Even those that get pulled over for speeding, DUI, and other valid reasons think they are getting harassed.

So, opinion really doesnt matter.

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@mysteryman,

mm loves to stretch any incident into the extremes, and asks his stupid questions that isn't anything like the real issue being discussed.

Different scenario, different issues. Can you remember this simple rule?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Actually,
I'm trying to find out just exactly how far you and others are willing to go with the claim that the your front porch is private property and you can do anything you want to.

Do you have any limits in that regard, or do you think that anything goes as long as its on the porch?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Then use some common sense. FYI, you can't rape a young girl on your front porch. There are lesser "crime" that you may not commit even on your own property - but especially on your front porch.

Stop asking stupid questions about scenarios you create from your imagination; that'll be a good start.

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@cicerone imposter,

I said nothing about rape, you did.

But, what limits do you have regarding the front porch?

What activities can I do on my porch that I can do inside my house?
Lets see if you have limits.

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@aidan,

aidan - There's a few details you've forgotten to account for...

Remember that these people selling ANTI-OBAMA merchandise. Why does that matter? It matters because the McCain campaign would never be so stupid to actually manufacture and distribute a sticker, button, or t-shirt that says "Nobama," because they were fighting a uphill battle trying to free themselves of negative press circulating around this very sentiment which was prevalent in his campaign rallies. These vendors were private businesses, not campaign staff and it is very clear. I'm not sure how many rallies you've been to. This lady wasn't selling pro-McCain merchandise, she was selling anti-Obama merchandise. It's a very poor assumption that she was working for the campaign. Further, if the customer of said product thinks that OWNING or DISPLAYING said product will in some way support their candidate or discourage supporters for a different one, then they got exactly what they want.

As for the vLog, I've been trying to find it. It was from the Telegraph UK's website. It was shown to me by a friend who happened to know I was at the same two rallies as the vLogger. The woman did not make the video, and if anything she was encouraged by the vLogger.

okie - So you use your power as a customer. I'm glad. I bet some other conservative vendors are happy too. I mean hell, you'd probably pay what... double... triple for a product if the store declared it was ultra conservative? you've got the control to use your dollar wherever you want, and I'm sure Republican business owners will happily exploit your preference by chatting you up on topics. Hell, maybe they' inflate your sense of intelligence and wit to boot!

We'll both go buy hammers, I'll pay less than you. No sweat off my back.

That's our right as customers.
K
O

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@mysteryman,

No, mm, I was just showing how ridiculous your example was. But it may have been too spacial for you to understand; my bad.

Your implication that a private porch is a license to do anything the owner wants is ridiculous on its face, but you wanted to pursue that line of thinking - all based on your imagination.

We were talking about "free speech" on one's front porch. You're too stupid to understand these literal issues.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Is all this heat due to some woman taking off her t-shirt to reveal that she was wearing an Obama shirt under it.

It's a strange thing to do.

I think TKO made up the story.

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@spendius,

And you arrive at your conclusion how?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Let's just agree to disagree, Cyclop. I probably won't ever have an occasion to do business with you, but I would sure want my attorney to look over any deal carefully before I did business with you if you are accurately relating what you see as ethical in your world. In my world it is much different.

You certainly shouldn't assume that I am donating any money I make to anyone, if I don't tell you I am. Don't outsource your failure to perform due diligence upon the other party, as if it were their fault, Fox.

You still aren't admitting that, at the end of the day, the clients got the items they wanted at the price they wanted them; nobody was cheated out of anything here, period.

Cycloptichorn

Their "outrage" is manufactured. They know, under free market principles, that you don't have to be an anti-Obama extremist to sell anti-Obama merchandise. Likewise, it is not unethical for a Pepsi-Cola drinker to sell Coca-Cola products. So long as the consumer gets the anti-Obama merchandise he wanted, and the soft drink consumer gets the Coca-Cola he wanted, all is well in America.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

aidan wrote:

Oh, so you think the right way to look at things is to condone a person misrepresenting/ actively lying about what she thinks and why she's present during a sales pitch?

Jesus - I'm really starting to despair of the world my kids are gonna inherit.

It's worse than that. He seems incapable of seeing that they DIDN'T get what they thought they were buying. He is incapable of seeing that they would have bought something else or from somebody else had the vendor not misrepresented herself.

In his world there was no unethical conduct at all.

Take courage though Aidan. The whole world isn't like him. And I remain convinced there are many more who share a sense of right and wrong with you and me than there are who share his views.

Like I said: Their outrage is manufactured.

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@Debra Law,

I'm not outraged - just surprised to what lengths people will go to make others their foil. The whole thing wouldn't have bothered me much at all if she hadn't then crowed about it. As I said, it wasn't that she was making a buck - it was her attitude toward the people she was making it from.

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@aidan,

Quote:

all is well in America.

Yeah...okay. So I guess this is indicative of the best we can ever hope for.

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@aidan,

Well, yeah, there is that attitude - as represented here.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

I cannot relate at all to treating people as gullible fodder for moneymaking purposes or one's own amusement.
Maybe that's why I'm not in sales.
(No offence to any salespeople who actually care about their customers).

My husband and I own a business for money-making purposes. We have many, many, many regular customers. It's none of our business how they choose to spend their money. (And, many of our customers are a source of considerable amusement.) When they slap their cash, checks, and credit cards on the sales counter, it's not our duty to question the wisdom of their purchases. In fact, I think it's rather good for business to compliment them on their choices and perhaps suggest other items that might suit their fancy! Smile

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@Debra Law,

And that's absolutely fine. But do you view them as 'gullible fodder for your own amusement - and treat them as such- laughing at them on film after they leave your store?

Do you pretend to be anything other than what you are as you make your sales?

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

I'm not outraged - just surprised to what lengths people will go to make others their foil. The whole thing wouldn't have bothered me much at all if she hadn't then crowed about it. As I said, it wasn't that she was making a buck - it was her attitude toward the people she was making it from.

Taking advantage of a money-making market when it presents itself is simply good business. You know the saying: A fool and his money are soon parted. The person who invented the "pet rock" was probably laughing all the way to the bank. Conservatives are notorious for pounding the free market drum, thus it is hypocritical for them to express outrage when an enterprising woman saw an opportunity to make some money and took advantage of that opportunity. She wasn't dumping toxic waste into our supply of drinking water, she was simply selling merchandise to people who wanted it.

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@Debra Law,

Okay - this will be my final post on the subject - I promise.

I have no problem with the woman making a buck. The problem I have is her attitude toward the people she made it from.
It's like if I were a butcher and I found a shop in a Jewish neighborhood. And I dressed myself as a Hasidic jew and proceeded to do business with the Jewish people who came in.
I'd be following all the rules for keeping kosher, etc., so they were getting the product they needed and wanted, but as soon as they left the store, I'd be saying **** like, 'It's so damn stupid that I have to keep my meat and dairy separate...what the hell's the point?'

They've been buying from me because they think I'm with them - but only because I've ACTIVELY lied to them about it - when the whole time- if they knew the truth, they'd probably much rather have spent their money somewhere else.

And I know - let the buyer beware and a fool and his money will soon be parted - all that....and I don't think this woman did anything illegal - but she gained her money while tricking people.

And because those people are Republicans - people on this forum think that's funny.
I don't get it...we're all Americans. We've all been scammed to death...can we not even stop the partisanship long enough to refrain from scamming each other? Where does this sort of thing get us?

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They didn't pay for a service, they paid for a product. The only service that she offered, she gave for free: Theatrics.

Your doom and gloom outlook for American business based on this is so overblown it's absurd. It can't be taken seriously. I think Cyclo put it best. You are looking at your father's era with rose colored glasses. Nothing new under the sun here and for that matter, your extrapolation into our abysmal future is noted. If things do get worse, it won't be because merchants cater to their customers.

Business is exploitation. It is the exploitation of a desire. You want an orange? Go grow one. Or I'd be willing to part with my oranges that I've grown at a cost higher than the cost to produce the individual orange. You want it? The merchant exploits either desire for the orange, or the desire for to have the orange right now (as opposed to planting a tree and waiting several years).

You ever go to a mechanic for an oil change? You know it would cost less if you do it yourself right? Maybe your desire to have someone else do it is being exploited. i guess that the mechanic is a bad person because they don't change your oil out of the goodness in their heart. They charged you more than what it would cost to do it yourself! Better hope they don't find amusement for the exchange in money for a job that either of you could have done. I mean hell, what's the world coming to! It's slippery slope. We no longer set up garages to change oil out of a sense of duty, now it's all about dollars and cents! Maybe you were tricked into thinking it was better for you to have someone else do it.

Admittedly, mechanic shops are known for being tricksters, but they provide a service. We could always do it ourselves. Wonder why mechanic shops exist then?

Remember, okie will pay more for a hammer. If you know any good conservative hardware stores, okie would prefer to get the same product for more. don't tell me those store owners wouldn't feel smug. That's one less hammer they had to sell to match the sale of two hammers from their competitor!

T
K
O

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@Diest TKO,

Quote:

Your doom and gloom outlook for American business based on this is so overblown it's absurd. It can't be taken seriously.

Then don't. I think the only outlook or view you take seriously is your own and people who think just like you.
You happen to be on of the least open minded and most arrogantly sure of your own narrow world view that I've ever encountered on this forum, if you want to know the truth.
I used to chalk it up to your age - now I just think it's arrogance.

I believe in people Diest - you only believe in people just like you- that's the difference between me and you.

1 Reply

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