Diest TKO
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:58 am
map - Remember that the poll was from voters. I think younger people feel a greater sense of social unity. Also, I wonder what options the people polled had.

What was the question they were asked and what were the options they had? Do you know?

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 12:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, You're making all those charges without providing any evidence. Please show us some credible resources for your charges/claims?

CLUE: Your personal opinion doesn't count.

Neither does you opinion then.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 12:59 pm
@okie,
What opinion? I'm asking a question.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574304343697759178.html

"Bullying CBO

Washington Post recently ran a story quoting Democrats as bragging that President Obama has deliberately patterned his legislative strategy after LBJ’s, circa 1965.This may explain the treatment of Douglas Elmendorf, the director of the supposedly nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office who last week told Congress that you can’t “save” money on health care by having government insure everyone.

For that bit of truth-telling, he was first excoriated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Then he was summoned, er, invited to the White House for an extraordinary and inappropriate meeting Monday with President Obama and a phalanx of economic and health-care advisers.

Writing on his blog after news of the meeting became public, Mr. Elmendorf diplomatically noted that “The President asked me and outside experts for our views about achieving cost savings in health reform.” No doubt he did. But Mr. Elmendorf, a Democrat, will also have received the message that continuing apostasy will not be good for his future political career.

As Douglas Holtz-Eakin, the Republican who ran CBO from 2003 to 2005, put it, “The only appearance could be that they’re leaning on him. CBO was created for Congress, for independent analysis. The White House did him [Elmendorf] a terrible disservice.” On second thought, perhaps we’re being unfair to LBJ, whose method was a combination of muscle and flattery. Mr. Obama learned his methods in Chicago. "
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:18 pm
@okie,
And you got your education where they award scholastic achievements to people like you who hasn't a clue on most topics you get involved in.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:19 pm
@okie,
No only was the President's summoning (invited? yeah right) the Director of the CBO in for a private meeting. I am hearing that if the guy was pressured or threatened in any way, it was flat out illegal. And, if the CBO numbers are somehow magically adjusted in the next week or two, then we'll know.
okie
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:26 pm
@Foxfyre,
Its called "Abuse of Power," Foxfyre. I think that is an impeachable offense. If the evidence becomes clear and definite, I would say the guy should be kicked out of office. Sadly, his minions will blindly follow him and defend him, because of emotional attachment and the unwillingness to admit they were in fact very very wrong about this guy. I think more and more people are beginning to realize Obama did not have friends like Wright, Ayers, and others by accident, he truly is a radical in sheeps clothing.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:35 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
Its called "Abuse of Power," Foxfyre.


Okay, okie, show us how? Please relate your response to the Constitution and existing laws.

CLUE: Your personal opinion doesn't count.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
OK ci. I need some info from a well educated Anerican gent.

Is the 10 billion bushel of US annual corn production measured in volume or by weight?

When are figures scheduled to go metric under the Competes Act?

How much of the 20 million barrels of oil per day consumption goes into the 2 billion bushel corn production for export? Which amounts to exporting oil with added value.

What proportion of the US oil consumption goes for export in all products?

What is the average dietary consumption of corn per head in the US?

Matters of this nature are far more important that some here today gone tomorrow poll figures or even presidential terms of office to those who know their science and their history and their economics. Miles more important.

Mr Obama got his first big boost in Iowa.


0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:57 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Its called "Abuse of Power," Foxfyre. I think that is an impeachable offense. If the evidence becomes clear and definite, I would say the guy should be kicked out of office. Sadly, his minions will blindly follow him and defend him, because of emotional attachment and the unwillingness to admit they were in fact very very wrong about this guy. I think more and more people are beginning to realize Obama did not have friends like Wright, Ayers, and others by accident, he truly is a radical in sheeps clothing.


"Evidence' is an impossible requirement in a case like this. It is the President's word against the director's word and one won't carry more weight than the other. Even if the Director says the President ordered him to publish false numbers, all the President has to do is deny it or say that the Director misunderstood.

I do agree that the company the President kept over the last 20 years, as well as his activities, during his rise to power is not insignificant and should be be a consideration in the kind of man we can expect him to be. Unfortunately it would also be irrelevent in an impeachment trial and we still don't have cause for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Our best bet is to pull Congress's teeth by taking away at least that super majority in 2010. (I'm guessing the Democrats would silently cheer such a turn of events so they don't have to take all the blame for 3-1/2 more years of this stuff.) And then in 2012, we need to elect somebody, Democrat or Republican, I don't care which, who does love this country, who does believe in the power of the people, and who does believe in fiscal integrity and honesty.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 02:05 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, You're making statements that suggests wrongdoing, but you don't identify what they are. Company he kept the past 20 years and his activities? What in hell is that supposed to mean?

Good luck in taking away the super majority in 2010. As things look, the GOP have become the "no" party without much credibility with the electorate. That's the reason the conservative movement gets smaller and smaller. The only thing left now is the base of about 22%; the same people that supports Bush and Palin.

You'd better start praying, because that's all you have left.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 02:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
Impeachment depends upon the press to a great extent. Nixon did not do anything worse than other presidents like Johnson and JFK in regard to wiretapping, yet you would have been laughed off the stage if you got up and suggested that JFK had done anything impeachable, simply becaue JFK was camelot, a media darling, similar to Obama. The media simply has too much invested in Obama, and it would hardly matter if he was caught redhanded robbing a bank, it would be explained away. But the media hated Richard Nixon, and they made it their business to hate him daily, and look for something to get rid of him, and when they found Watergate, they drummed on it daily until it bore fruit. The reporters became heros and icons.

Now, the reporters have little curiosity about corruption in the Democratic Party. Only the Republicans does it matter, whereby they sent plane loads of reporters and investigators to Alaska when Palin came on the scene. No similar curiosity about Biden, his goofiness, and corrupt connections.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 02:33 pm
@okie,
Impeachment does not depend on the press; it depends on the laws of our land, and if and when congress wishes to pursue any action.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  7  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:17 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Impeachment depends upon the press to a great extent. Nixon did not do anything worse than other presidents like Johnson and JFK in regard to wiretapping, yet you would have been laughed off the stage if you got up and suggested that JFK had done anything impeachable, simply becaue JFK was camelot, a media darling, similar to Obama. The media simply has too much invested in Obama, and it would hardly matter if he was caught redhanded robbing a bank, it would be explained away. But the media hated Richard Nixon, and they made it their business to hate him daily, and look for something to get rid of him, and when they found Watergate, they drummed on it daily until it bore fruit. The reporters became heros and icons.

Now, the reporters have little curiosity about corruption in the Democratic Party. Only the Republicans does it matter, whereby they sent plane loads of reporters and investigators to Alaska when Palin came on the scene. No similar curiosity about Biden, his goofiness, and corrupt connections.
just so you will seem a little less an idiot, look up Barry Goldwater--Richard Nixon impeachment.
Advocate
 
  2  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:49 pm
@okie,
This is so funny. Obama is an absolute choirboy compared to Bush and Cheney.
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Have you not yelled bigot at everyone criticizing illegals or Pals?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:54 pm
@Advocate,
Show me where. You are free to cut and paste from any of my posts.
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 05:09 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Obama is an absolute choirboy compared to Bush and Cheney.


That is what worries some of us. I have heard said that he is exiled to the spare bedroom if he steps out of line.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 07:41 pm
@dyslexia,
Congress and what congress does depends very much upon public opinion, and public opinion not only drives the press to some extent, but the press also drives public opinion, probably even to a greater extent in my opinion. For any president to be impeached, congress will need the media to help drive the process, to feed the fires of discontent with a politician, and to destroy his or her reputation and credibility. Of course, actual evidence is necessary in the impeachment procedure, but with enough investigators and spin, something can be dredged up, concocted, and built into something very significant. Lawyers are experts at spinning, and skewing to what they want to happen in a case. As an example of lawyers, face it, the Supreme Court supposedly is made up of the best of the lot and they can manage to invent stuff in the constitution that was never written.

I have heard said that the press is worth at least 15 points in an election. I personally think that is a conservative estimate, and of course over time, it can possibly be expanded. That is why I believe Bush was so tarnished, the press pounded on him for 8 years, and it is nothing short of miraculous that he won a second term and ended up with 30% or so approval rating after the program of spin went on as long as it did.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Mon 27 Jul, 2009 07:47 pm
@okie,
well okie, you're analysis is all very interesting however, you completely avoided the Goldwater/Nixon impeachment issue.
 

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