Obama '08?

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

You forgot that the SEC slept at the switch. They have the responsibility to ensure the viability of assets traded, and failed to act when the real estate derivatives kept trading at even higher prices even though the value were unknown, and the rating companies kept giving them triple-A ratings

The SEC was (and is) run by the executive branch of the US Government and funded and overseen by the US Congress. Both the US government and the corporate class felt that they had much to gain by the SEC being weak, and they made it so. In reality everyone to include the Government and the corporate class had a need for a strong SEC, long term. Short term Greed overruled long term best interests and good sense.

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@old europe,

Quote:

It's like saying that the guy who left his car unlocked and the motor running forced the guy who stole the car and used it in a bank robbery to commit that crime.

But thats precisely the type of argument that the more loony liberal people have tried to use.

They have said that criminals are totally a product of their environment, and that it is society's fault that someone became a criminal.

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You're all thrashing about because you cannot, or possibly dare not, say that the combination of losing your hegemony over the fair sex, TV plus advertising, which is their propoganda voice, and the nature of politicians is bound to have the inevitable consequences which you pontificate about so ineffectively.

I know it is hard to do when you have to keep the peace with wives, mothers, sisters and aunties and such like but if you remember, like a sound evolutionist does, that they are descended from female monkeys you might be able to work out your difficulties before nature does it for you. The latter is much the most painful option.

There's a book called W.C.Fields for President. There's some tips in that.

Also you have to be able to take venemous villification in your stride and get on with what "a man's gotta do".

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Look; no matter how much you say the government encouraged businesses to do these things, the truth is that they did not force any of them to make what were essentially bad investments. The companies themselves should have had the foresight to see this coming, but they did not. The government as a regulatory agency is supposed to be the last line of defense the public has against idiocy, fraud, and poor decisions, not the first!

A firms reason to exist is to make money. The governments reason to exist is to protect and develop the best interests of the nation. The allowance of harmful practices is the totally the fault of Government. Individuals are to blame for their own harm only if they have gone against the collective wisdom during the commission of their harm.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

.Consumer goods were limited, and most things were rati0ned.

when i was a little kid and getting into any and every thing i could, i would occasionally find an old ration stamp book. found some other wwII stuff like adverts for war bonds, etc.

i'm very proud of my parents. both were born a several years before the great depression, had a childhood that was absolute desolation in terms of "having stuff". then they had to deal with the most encompassing world war ever. they both came through it as fine and considerate people.

they never griped about taxes. i'm not sure why not, as i've mentioned before, they were both arch conservative, dyed in the wool republicans. involved in state gop politics, pachyderm clubs and alla that stuff.

they should have been the first ones to complain about taxation by today's standards. but they didn't. just paid the damn things, considered it one of the 2 sure things in life and went on their merry way.

and now that i sit here, a decrepit old rock and roller, with a little bit of historical knowledge and life experience... i realize that just about any of us here on a2k have had a much easier life than those people did.

suddenly, kicking a few extra ducats into the tin doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice to keep the u.s. standing upright.

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@mysteryman,

Quote:

They have said that criminals are totally a product of their environment, and that it is society's fault that someone became a criminal.

More to the point is that it is governments (the collectives) duty to educate the individuals. The creation of idiots is partly the result of a collective failure to run an effective education system. Since the collective is partly responsible for the situation that individuals find themselves in walking away from the individual who has gotten in trouble is morally reprehensible. It is a warriors responsibility to come to the aid of a comrade who has fallen, it is a duty not not leave your fallen behind. It is the same thing, but you are the Right are sure fast to abandon your brothers sometimes. Some soul searching on your part might be profitable.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Your mention of "profit" might give them the right kind of motivation. LOL

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@mysteryman,

Who said that criminals were entirely the product of their environment? That is, of course, silly. Just look at GWB, who had the finest upbringing known to man, and is still, in my opinion, a war criminal.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

There was a Lever C.

We will issue across the board tax cut for corporations and businesses

part of what got us in trouble to start with

Foxfyre wrote:

to help them weather the down turn and start hiring again.

all that will do is foster more profit taking. they've already shown that their loyalties lay with the stakeholders (whuzzzup with the "stakeholders" thing?? "stockholder" wasn't cool enough sounding ?? Smile

). they've been getting big tax cuts since the '80s. which is also when the big downsizing and outsourcing movement began. on top of that, the big boys have had personal income capital gains tax reduction for years.

if your theory were what was needed, we wouldn't be having this conversation because the corps would have been doing that all along.

our country is in the poopy place because of one thing; Greed.

Foxfyre wrote:

We will freeze spending across the board in government and cut spending wherever we reasonably can to mitigate the hit on the treasury.

and then we can all pride ourselves on our fiscal restraint as the joint comes down around our ears.

Foxfyre wrote:

And now people, it is up to you to do what you do to create a strong, thriving economy.

if the playing field were even between the average small business and the average corporation, there might just be enough to go around. but with the proliferation of multi-nationals and the insane tax breaks, loopholes and cayman island p.o. box world headquarters....

might as well try building a snow man in hades.

there may be times when the feds should be hands off, but this ain't one of 'em...

Foxfyre wrote:

Had he done that, I believe we would be on our way out of the recession now and the prospects would be much brighter. Obama would also have gained the #1 spot as the all time best President ever.

with about 4 months in office, i think we can certainly allow the new guy a little more time to rebuild what took decades to wreck, don't you?
[/quote]

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Millions of jobs would have been lost when GM died and our financial industry would be in ashes at this point if we abandoned all the Credit Default Swaps as you suggested.

careful, bro. you'll piss off maporshe's generation with that kind of thinking.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
It's like saying that the guy who left his car unlocked and the motor running forced the guy who stole the car and used it in a bank robbery to commit that crime.

But thats precisely the type of argument that the more loony liberal people have tried to use.

They have said that criminals are totally a product of their environment, and that it is society's fault that someone became a criminal.

I worked an insurance claim once in which Grandpa and Grandma ran an errand in their pickup leaving their 17-year-old granddaughter home alone at the house. Ex-daughter-in-law came by and, without Grandpa or Grandma's knowledge or permission and without the permission of the 17-year-old, dumped her three younger kids (13 - 10 - 7) at the house and took off doing whatever. At some point, some teasing and taunting ensued promoting the 13-year-old to get Grandpa's keys off the peg in the kitchen and take the other kids for a drive in Grandpa's Cadillac. She was not skilled at driving and quickly became scared and stopped, afraid to drive any further. Her 17-year-old cousin took over intending to drive the car back to the house but had an accident in which one of her young cousins was injured.

Grandpa was held liable for the accident and the insurance company wound up paying a large settlement for the damage caused by the accident and to the mother for the relatively minor injuries of the child.

Why? Grandpa left the keys where the kids could get them even though he didn't know they were going to be there.

Could put a whole new perspective on the keys in the ignition where a potential car thief can see them, especially a juvenile, and the way things are going it is likely the car owner who could be held liable.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

(pick your bailout Citi, Mexico, S&L's, Long-Term Capital Management and so on and on and on....).

lincoln savings and loan. this jazz didn't come out of nowhere.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Well, it wasn't illegal! And the government should have been paying better attention to me, heck, they practically forced me to do this thing by not stopping me from doing it!

that's why the feds instituted regulation, all them many years ago.

when regulation disappeared.... welcome to Deadwood.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

hawkeye10 wrote:

(pick your bailout Citi, Mexico, S&L's, Long-Term Capital Management and so on and on and on....).********

lincoln savings and loan. this jazz didn't come out of nowhere.

******* shoulda been this.. sorry hawkeye...

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@Foxfyre,

When I was a lad of about 4, Foxy, my cousin (6) and my brother (8), along with Yankee Boy, the beagle, walked down the street on a Friday evening to where a new house was being put in. They had poured the concrete driveway late that afternoon before quitting for the weekend.
When the workmen showed up Monday they discovered 4 sets of footprints in the now hard cement. We denied knowledge of the incident. We stood in each others' prints. They didn't match, but the dog's did.
I think my dad, who was a decent guy, would have paid up. But the contractor, perhaps, over-reacted, filing charges against us and suing. That got the German immigrant heritage in dad fired up.
The judge threw the case out, ruling that the wet cement was (I still remember this phrase after all these years) an "attractive nuisance" that should not have been left unattended or unbarricaded.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

Yup. The 'attractive nuisance' label was the argument used in the case of Grandpa's Cadillac too. El Stud and I aren't doing claims anymore but, among other things, do insurance underwriting inspections and one thing we also take notice of and report is the 'attractive nuisance' factors that invite insurance claims.

I wish the government was as conscious and conscientious in the 'attractive nuisance' factor in their policies and initiatives. If it was, we never would have had the housing bust and the current economic problems.

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This is interesting.
Apparently, the State dept doesnt believe in minimum wage for its employees...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/16/some-locals-at-us-diplomatic-posts-earn-less-than-1-a-day/

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) " The State Department has revised a report that erroneously pegged the salaries of some foreigners working abroad at U.S. embassies and other places at less than $1 per day.

It's not $1 a day, it's $4 a day, the inspector general's office said Friday, two days after the report was released.

"We were given that information erroneously," inspector general spokesman Tom Burgess told CNN. "We know it is between three dollars and four dollars a day."

Apparently a currency conversion error was to blame, he said.

Other details of the report remain in place, including claims that some lower grade foreign nationals who work for the department earn so little that they must cut back to one meal a day and send their children out to peddle on the streets.

"We have no further corrections to make," Burgess said. "We stand behind the report."

The inspector general's report looked at how the United States pays more than 51,000 local, non-American employees in about 170 missions.

In addition to the hardship caused to the workers because of inadequate pay, the report found that the United States is losing staff to other higher-paying employers, and may not be able to fill vacancies with qualified people.

So, is the Obama admin going to raise everyones pay, or are they going to continue to underpay their employees?

1 Reply

Quote:

They have said that criminals are totally a product of their environment, and that it is society's fault that someone became a criminal.

The serious scientific materialists say that.

Did I say something unmentionable in my previous posts? It was only the sort of thing some future Gibbon might say when ranging over the longer term rather than the petty details of personal experience.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

This is interesting.
Apparently, the State dept doesnt believe in minimum wage for its employees...

Well, it really would be interesting if the US minimum wage would apply elsewhere - I do know that they don't pay according to the tariff in Germany but a lot less.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

My point is that while so many of you are raising hell because US companies move overseas and pay next to nothing, it seems the US govt is guilty of the same thing.

Are you people complaining about corporations going to raise hell about the state dept now?

2 Replies

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