@georgeob1,
Tippled prose? I was rather drunk, myself. Not just that but that also.
Quote:I think the issue at hand is whether religious people or merely believers in a diety are more intolerant or given to oppression than non-believers; and, if so does the continuing continuing conflict in Palestine illustrate the phenomenon?
The premise above isn't mine, though you keep hoping it might be. I've spent god knows (pardon the expression) how many hours here throwing tomatoes at folks who presume religious belief or expression is the causal element in ugly human behavior. I find the presumption simplistic and shallow - thus its popularity.
My premise is that humans organize themselves in groups (religious, political, national, tribal, Shefield football fan, whatever is handy) and the proceed to act out, sometimes and in some circumstances, the ugly parts of our genetic inheritance.
But as not all instances of nationalism are the same, so not all instances of religious tradition are the same. Some are worse than others in respect of our topic here. The three faith traditions that evolved in the middle east aren't my favorites. The god of the the "old testament" is a merciless, cruel, bigoted bastard. Words, acts and ideas attributed to him are often (really often) utterly barbaric and without moral conscience. Such aren't the only attributions, of course, but Stalin may have been chummy with his grandkids.
So, that ain't a great start if we were hoping for a civilizing influence from religious notions (which, other than avoiding death and wishing for a benevolent and caring design in the trajectory of the universe) seems to me to be the only good we might posit from this particular means of organizing ourselves.
Now, I do consider that some progress was achieved two thousand years ago as regards the empathy for suffering thing. That's civilized. Desmond Tutu, for example. ML King, for another. But then you get Tim LaHaye and Pat Robertson and Bill Donahue calling for fire and pestilence to rain down on those "other people" they don't like.
Faith doesn't cause any of this. But faith often doesn't prevent it either and, like a flag, can provide the symbols and justifications for ugly and can facilitate it.
I make no claim about the superiority of secularism for organizing human groups (though as a framework for understanding reality, I think it rather better in certain cases, which is why I have a surgeon and not an I Ching coin-flipper). Secular societies will find some other means to **** themselves up.
My claim is a negative one. I reject any claim from religious groups that they've got this problem handled. That's delusional and by it's exclusivist nature (we got it, the others don't got it) provides precisely the framework for the ugly to be, once again, facilitated.
Quote:If I struck a nerve with the term, "preconceptions" I apologize. My intent wasn't to offend, belittle or even be (knowingly) smug
No. My nerves, the one's still firing, are mostly in my penis and your not likely to encounter them. As to "smug", you'd hardly have me beat on that one. Actually, I wrote that sentence mainly because the idea occurred to me while writing that there really ought to be a little visual representation of smugness. It's a notable omission in this world of whizbang computerese.
I am reasonably well though content only when drunk. As that rarely happens, it isn't much help. As I noted on my blog (I think the same excellently inebriated night I wrote the post above) I am waiting for the pharmaceutical industry (or some clandestine basement operation) to come up with a medication that actually achieves "You'll get over it". Until then, discontent will mar an otherwise perfect human being. Jane is another story altogether. As to your hoisting...we'll chuckle together. Portland. Cute town but too protestant, white and granola.
Nice to talk again. I like you. You're not Asherman and so right off the bat as a matter of mere contrast, there's that relief which I suspect one must feel, returning to a black box and placed in a stress-position after an hour of waterboarding..."Ah, thank god!"
