Obama '08?

@okie,

Okie,

Harry and Nancy (Dumb and Dumber) are pawns for Obama to use to get his agenda moving forward. I think you will see the House 's NEW 407B SPENDING plan will be DOA if it makes it way to Obama.

However, do not be fooled by the Republicans who say ONLY TAX DECREASE will solve the problem.

The "stimulus bill" is PACKED will earmarks. Most of them will generate employment or stem more layoffs in the private sector. Some will do nothing.

This stimulus plan, again, is only half the potential resolution. the other half and the most important half will be what comes out of Treasury relative to the Banks and the so called "troubled assets".

Being objective, as we both are, we should be able to recognize that Obama is on the right track, at least in theory. You need to spend some to keep the engine moving or at least stop it from going backwards. Then you need the treasury to shore up the Banks to kick start lending and clearing up Capital Markets.

We shall see. I agree spending more will not work alone. Spend some, then fix the Banks and maybe in time the markets recover.

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Neither do you which is why I had to explain it to Okie.

1 Reply

@Woiyo9,

woiyo9, on the other hand, is simply an ignorant bigot.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Oops, sorry about that, I meant to include the source, but slipped my mind...

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/stimulus_bill_bravado.html

Cyclo wrote:

Citizens Against Government Waste is a lobbyist group paid by major corporations to push their agenda; I hardly think they are a 'watchdog' of anything other than quite specific interests.

Please provide your source for this statement...according to the CAGW website:

CAGW wrote:

CAGW and CCAGW operate on an annual combined budget of approximately $5 million. Neither organization accepts government support. CAGW and CCAGW accept contributions from individuals, foundations, corporations and other organizations consistent with their mission to uncover, publicize and eliminate government waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement. Since their inception in 1984, CAGW and CCAGW have engaged in a wide range of activities that have helped save taxpayers $1.04 trillion.

Income

In 2007, 77 percent of the organizations' combined income came from individual contributors, while foundation and corporate support accounted for 21 percent of income.

If more than 3/4 of their support is from individual contributors, then I think you're hard-pressed to argue that they are beholden to major corporations to advance their agenda. And before you respond back with something like "21% is significant", please support your response with specific examples of 501(c)3 orgs that take less from foundations or corporations...I've found none myself.

They are also not lobbyists according to Obama's own definition....which requires the organization/individual be registered and I see no mention of CAGW listed in the database of lobbyists at Open Secrets.org.

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Citizens_Against_Government_Waste

Quote:

The conservative Capital Research Center (CRC) notes in its Searchlight database (which records corporate and general foundation contributions) that CAGW has "received funding from:

* Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation
* Merrill Lynch & Company Foundation
* Exxon Corporation (now ExxonMobil)
* Ingersoll-Rand Company
* Johnson & Johnson
* F.M. Kirby Foundation
* Philip Morris
* RJR Nabisco (now part of the Altria Group)
* Sears Roebuck & Company[9]

Others listed include:

* John Deere Foundation
* Eaton Charitable Fund
* Columbia/HCA Foundation

However, CRC's database generally does not record direct corporate contributions as distinct from grants from corporate foundations.

A few examples of tobacco industry donations to CAGW:

* Philip Morris
o 1995, $50,000 [10]
o 1996, $50,000 [11]
o 1997, $50,000 [12]
o 1998, $35,000 [13]
o 1999, $10,000 (budgeted) [14]
* The Tobacco Institute
o 1999, $10,000 (budgeted) [15]

It's pretty clear that they are a conservative advocacy group. I think you are correct to say however that they are not lobbyists, and I was mistaken to call them lobbyists.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Okie, do you understand the theory behind the stimulus bill, or why the government would want to spend money at this time?

Cycloptichorn

This is amazing. Cyclops, be serious. This stimulus bill is based upon the theory that government projects, government spending, will stimulate the economy. It will, marginally, for a while, and deficits will continue to soar, and it makes matters worse in the long run. The economy has to be stimulated by stimulating free markets. This clearly does not do that in the long term. Got that? I know your philosophy clings to the idea that government and central planning will work, but it won't.

Basically it boils down to two different camps, those of us that believe in free markets, and those that don't, and you clearly don't. Nor does Obama. Nor does the country any more, apparently, or they don't have the brains to know who they are following and what needs to be done.

1 Reply

@Woiyo9,

Woiyo9 wrote:

However, do not be fooled by the Republicans who say ONLY TAX DECREASE will solve the problem.

I don't and I have never said that. It is only one piece of the puzzle that needs overhauling. We need drastic reform in several areas, and I have posted that in the past. This took a long time to get us into this pickle, and we won't get out of it soon.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Okie, do you understand the theory behind the stimulus bill, or why the government would want to spend money at this time?

Cycloptichorn

This is amazing. Cyclops, be serious. This stimulus bill is based upon the theory that government projects, government spending, will stimulate the economy. It will, marginally, for a while, and deficits will continue to soar, and it makes matters worse in the long run. The economy has to be stimulated by stimulating free markets. This clearly does not do that in the long term. Got that? I know your philosophy clings to the idea that government and central planning will work, but it won't.

Basically it boils down to two different camps, those of us that believe in free markets, and those that don't, and you clearly don't. Nor does Obama. Nor does the country any more, apparently, or they don't have the brains to know who they are following and what needs to be done.

I don't think you do understand the theory behind the stimulus bill at all, actually. It is not to continually stimulate the market, or even to provide long-term growth to it. It is to help businesses and people get by until regular conditions re-assert themselves. Tax cuts, such as you want, would do NOTHING right now, nothing at all, and you have no evidence they would.

As for the 'different camp' theory, well; look how fast the 'free market' companies came running to the government for help when times got tough. They obviously don't believe in a free market either, or they just would have failed and blamed themselves. Right?

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Well, I never argued that they didn't receive some funding from corporations and foundations...

cyclo wrote:

It's pretty clear that they are a conservative advocacy group.

I'll give you that, but the CAGW was merely one organization that FactCheck quoted in their article. I presume then that you don't dispute FactCheck's assessment that the stimulus bill included pork...

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclo, You're trying to discuss one plus one equals two kind of issue with okie; without taxpayers, tax cuts means nothing. The primary job for our government is to stop the bleeding of jobs and homes. Without the middle class paying taxes, the government will be strictly run on the wealthy/rich tax payers. They want their cake and eat it too, but the math just doesn't work out.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

I understand the theory. It is payback time. Most of the stimulus will end up in the hands of the people who backed Obama for office. This will become clear as time goes on.

0 Replies

Okie's overlooked link---It should be addressed since it suggests an important question--Since Obama's group can't even do a simple vet job, how can they be expected to handle the much more difficult and complex stimulus package and bank rescue without, as Obama said--"Screwing up"?

Note: quote from Okie's link

President Obama won praise for overseeing a White House transition that started off smoothly and proceeded at record pace, with most of his Cabinet nominated within two months of the election.

But after three of his nominees withdrew their nominations over embarrassing revelations, questions have been raised about Obama's vetting process.

Tax problems forced former Sen. Tom Daschle, who would have headed the Department of Health and Human Services, and Nancy Killefer, nominated as a government performance officer, to withdraw their names Tuesday. And a pay-to-play investigation in New Mexico knocked Gov. Bill Richardson out of contention for commerce secretary last month.

Obama aides said Wednesday the president made more than a simple mistake in trying to save Daschle's nomination.

"I think in the interest of getting those appointments, the president trumped the principles he laid out in the campaign and he took responsibility for that," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said.

end of Okie's link.

0 Replies

@Woiyo9,

Are you well?

It seems you are going as mad as cjhsa.

Truly, have you seen a doctor lately?

0 Replies

@Woiyo9,

You are quite correct, Woiyo9--But note the post by the Rabbit. Moronic as usual--without any substance, she attacks you. I understand she is from Australia. If so, the ozone hole is allegedly causing all kinds of problems in that country. If she had any brains to start with, I am sure they are baked out by now.

Pay her no heed!!!

0 Replies

I wonder if Biden will investigate his family's corruption? Nobody messes with Joe. Thats what I heard Obama say! And he is putting Joe in charge of some of this, because "NOBODY MESSES WITH JOE!" Joe better get to work on this and look up some "numbers" for that website he is supposed be in charge of. Get to work, Joe! Check out those lobbyists, hedge funds, and oh yeah, the embezzler Stanford Company out of Texas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/24/report-bidens-son-brother-marketed-hedge-fund-stanford-company/

1 Reply

@okie,

How could this happen, Okie? In Obama's brave new world in which there is perfect transparency and no corruption? I guess the Obama corruption sniffing machine is as broken down as their vetting machine which was unable to properly vet Richardson, Daschle, et al.

If they can't do something so simple as vetting, how can they possibly handle the enormously complicated stimulus package.

In the meantime, Corruption is alive and well in the highest places of the Democratic Party.

Note:

Biden's Son, Brother Named in Two Suits
By Kimberly Kindy and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 24, 2008; Page A09

A son and a brother of Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) are accused in two lawsuits of defrauding a former business partner and an investor of millions of dollars in a hedge fund deal that went sour, court records show.

0 Replies

Another really crumby policy, make doctors kill babies, force them to do it. What a piece of work theis guy is!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/27/official-obama-reverse-bush-abortion-regulation/

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Another really crumby policy, make doctors kill babies, force them to do it. What a piece of work theis guy is!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/27/official-obama-reverse-bush-abortion-regulation/

Hell with that. The Hippocratic Oath does not allow for your personal bullshit. If you don't want to practice medicine, then get out of the biz.

This same bill let pharmacists refuse to hand out birth control, which many of the wingers amongst them promptly did. But it's none of their business what my doctor prescribes me. Their job is to hand me the pills and shut the **** up.

One of the best decisions Obama has made so far, in my opinion.

Cycloptichorn

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know