genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:35 am
@cicerone imposter,
This should mean that China will sign on to the C limate treaty which will be ratified in December 2009. THEY WON'T because they are not so stupid as to cripple their economy. They describe themselves as a developing nation and developing nations DID NOT SIGN ON TO KYOTO BECAUSE THEY ARE DEVELOPING NATIONS.

Of course, you, in your massive ignorance, do not know that!
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:40 am
Okie- I took the liberty of taking part of your link. Seebelow:

Obama has been routinely late to events and news conferences, including the ones at which he reversed Bush's orders. This has led to an already familiar refrain from the Obama camp: "He's running late."

The president was 45 minutes late Friday for a ceremony in which he introduced a team of outside economic advisers. He was 10 minutes late Thursday to a memo signing at the Energy Department. He was nearly 30 minutes late Wednesday for the ceremony at which he signed a bill to expand children's health care.

Even before the inauguration, Obama wasn't a punctual sort; he arrived late to a Jan. 8 news conference on the economy that was aired live by broadcast and cable networks.
******************************************************************

He is following CP time!
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:44 am
C icerone tells us about the successes of Bill Clinton. There were very few.

He failed miserably in his effort to radicalize the US Health System.

He did some things--NAFTA and designating China as a MFN.

But he was unparalled in his ability to use his OVAL OFFICE to entice a young intern who worked in the White House to fellate his repeatedly.

That takes talent!
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 05:21 am
If by "radicalize the US health system" you mean "failed to introduce a system similar to the proven health care systems in every other major industrialized nation, which cover every citizen, which the US health system does not, cost about half per capita as the US health system does, consume a smaller percentage of GDP than the US health mess, provide higher measures of public health than the US system does, and have higher measures of consumer satisfaction than the US system", then yes, he failed, thanks to, among others, right wing ideologues who are incapable of losing their ideological blinders for even a moment, to see what actually works, works better, and is much, much cheaper. The "free market" ain't providing the goods. Unfortunately Obama probably won't be able to overcomethat same resistance and bring our health care system into the 21st century either.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:32 am
@MontereyJack,
Great post.

Terrific thoughts.

Well articulated.

Thank you, Jack!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:32 am
@genoves,
genoves, You continue to be blind to what Clinton did accomplish; one major one being the production of a surplus in the federal budget. Now, think about Bush and what he did to the federal deficit; he doubled it. The second major one is Clinton's performance in the production of jobs, and the earning power of the consumer that actually kept up with inflation. On the other hand, Bush has been responsible for the worst creation of jobs since Hoover, and consumers lost buying power.
revel
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:50 am
@genoves,
We are in the middle of a classic liberal verses conservative debate on how to fix the economy with both sides being heated up. It is not surprising his numbers have started slipping a little given his recent spat of trouble with his nominations and now this debate. Although some democrats seem to be still lapdogs for republicans.

Quote:
Today’s numbers reflect a decline for the President since inauguration day. In the first set of interviews conducted after Obama became the nation’s President, 45% Strongly Approved of his performance while 16% Strongly Disapproved for a Presidential Approval Index rating of +29.

Following a week in which the partisan divide in Washington heated up, the number of Republicans who Strongly Approve of the President slipped to single digits"9% now, down from12% a week ago. Slippage among Democrats was even more dramatic, from 76% a week ago to 64% today.

As for those not affiliated with either major political party, 29% now Strongly Approve of the President and 24% Strongly Disapprove. A week ago, those figures were 41% Strongly Approve and 27% Strongly Disapprove (Premium Members can see more details in Daily Snapshot).

While the President’s numbers have softened a bit, it’s important to keep the decline in context. President Obama continues to receive positive reviews from American voters. Sixty percent (60%) at least somewhat approve of Obama’s performance so far while 38% disapprove. For more data, see Obama By the Numbers and review recent demographic highlights.


source
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:54 am
@revel,
revel, When we look at how Bush left the presidency with the mid-twenties approval rating, and the conservatives now have the gall to rate Obama to 9% tells us much more about where their brains resides.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:00 am
It was amusing, and pitiful, that Andy Card, Bush's former chief of staff, criticized O and his administration for not dressing up enough. That is incredibly stupid: I'll take competence, wisdom, humanity, etc., over dressing well any day. I guess Microsoft, Google, et al., are all failures because employees are not sufficiently neat. I might mention that Card was the ultimate in incompetence, certainly not the public servant this country needs.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:22 am
@Advocate,
On Andy Card from Wiki:

Quote:
On September 11, 2001, it was Card who whispered in Bush's ear while the President was conducting an education event at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida that terrorists had attacked the United States.[4]

Philip Johnston, now the state Democratic chair, collaborated with Card to effect rules reform in the Massachusetts House. “I’m a very partisan, liberal Democrat, and we worked just beautifully together,” Johnston told the Washington Post last February, a sentiment that was echoed throughout the Capitol when it became clear in the final days of postelection turmoil that Card was Bush’s pick for chief of staff. [5]

On November 26, 2005, Card experienced a close call along with 12 other passengers aboard a Gulfstream twin-engine plane when smoke began pouring into the cockpit during the flight. The plane was bound for Washington, D.C., but the pilot managed to land safely at the Nashville International Airport. No injuries were reported.

On March 28, 2006, the White House announced that Card would resign as Chief of Staff and be replaced by United States Office of Management and Budget director Joshua B. Bolten.[6] Card's resignation was effective April 14, 2006.[7] As White House Chief of Staff Card was well regarded by both sides of the aisle on Capitol Hill. In an interview about Card leaving the White House with Dana Bash from CNN Senator Dick Durbin (D), then Minority Whip and later Majority Whip said, "He's one of the most reasonable, professional people in this White House, a person whose word is very good...." [8]

In his book State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III, Bob Woodward states that Card resigned because he was concerned that the war in Iraq would be seen as another Vietnam War, after twice failing to persuade the President to dismiss Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense,[9] with the support of First Lady Laura Bush on his second attempt.[10]
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:29 am
@okie,
okie, And how do you suppose "social justice" in the US will harm the US?
okie
 
  0  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
"Social Justice" is a buzzword of despots and dictators.

Life isn't fair, ci, even JFK knew that.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:02 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Life isn't fair, ci, even JFK knew that.

but civilized societies attempt to make it more fair.....right??
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:33 pm
@okie,
Oh, you mean the conservative kind. LOL
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:52 pm
Wrong again, okie. Actually "social justice" is a "buzzword" to use okie's phrase of those dangerous-radical-despots-and-dictators-out-to-destroy-the-American-Way-of-Life the National Council of Churches, the United Chruch of Christ, the Disciples of Christ, AME, and on and on. Damn, those Christians are just sticking their noses in everywhere.

okie and genovesagato as usual are talking thru their respective hats with their high tinfoil content.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:10 pm
@MontereyJack,
Moneterey Jack- Your post is nothing but generalization. It is just opinion. Why don't you try to give examples, if you can, to prove your outrageous statements.

Chew on this--

Let's hope Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy were sitting down when they heard the news of the latest bombshell Supreme Court ruling. From the Supreme Court of Canada, that is. That high court issued an opinion last Thursday saying, in effect, that Canada's vaunted public health-care system produces intolerable inequality.



genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:25 pm
@genoves,
Respond to this-Monterey Jack--You are at least twice as smart as Cicerone Imposter who can't post more than two lines at a time. Do you have the intellectual integrity to try to rebut this evidence or will you, like Cicerone does, go off on a stupid irrelvant tangent. Read the evidence---





July 22, 2005
A Victory for Freedom: The Canadian Supreme Court's Ruling on Private Health Care
by Jacques Chaoulli, M.D.
Heritage Lecture #892
ROBERT E. MOFFIT: Ladies and gentlemen, I am happy to join my co-host, Grace-Marie Turner, President of the Galen Institute, in welcoming you to The Heritage Foundation. We are honored to have with us Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, whose recent case before the Canadian Supreme Court ended in a major victory for health care freedom in Canada.

In Canada, patients have long been legally prohibited from spending their own money to purchase medical care privately if that care was also provided under the Canadian government's health care program. Many Canadians who did not want endure the wait for treatment under the government program, or suffer the pain or inconvenience of these restrictions, would often have to travel to the United States to get the care that they wanted or needed. That is why Dr. Chaoulli's victory in the Canadian Supreme Court, allowing patients to secure private care in Canada, is historic.

The Canadian case has relevance for Americans. While ordinary Americans would consider government restrictions on their ability to spend their own money on legal medical services to be a shocking violation of their personal freedom, they should be reminded that the Clinton Administration and Congress enacted a similar restriction in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 for the Medicare population. Under Section 4507 of the act, a Medicare patient could contract privately with a doctor for a medical service covered by Medicare only if the doctor would sign an affidavit to that effect, submit that affidavit to the Secretary of Health and Human Services within 10 days, and forgo reimbursement from all other Medicare patients for two full years. Since the enactment of this bizarre law, subsequent litigation and regulatory modifications have softened its impact, but it nonetheless remains on Medicare's books.1

The Canadian Supreme Court decision is a landmark case for one reason: It reaffirms that personal freedom is the key value in health care policy. In the continuing debates over health care access, cost, and quality, American policymakers should not lose sight of why America exists.

Robert E. Moffit is Director of the Center for Health Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.


GRACE-MARIE TURNER: Bob and I are honored to host Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, the courageous physician who challenged restrictions in Canada's government-run health care system--and won. The Supreme Court of Canada struck down on June 9, 2005, a Quebec law that had banned private health insurance and private payment for services covered under Medicare, Canada's socialized health care program.

Dr. Chaoulli was joined in the case by his patient, Montreal businessman George Zeliotis, who was forced to wait a year for hip replacement surgery. Zeliotis, 73, tried to skip the public queue to pay privately for the surgery but learned that was against the law. He argued that the wait was unreasonable, endangered his life, and infringed on his constitutional rights. The two fought their case all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court, which voted 4-3 that they were correct.

"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care," the court said in its ruling.

The case involved the Quebec Hospital Insurance Act and technically applies only to that province, but it is a wake up call to the other provinces, where private insurance also is banned. "This is indeed a historic ruling that could substantially change the very foundations of medicare as we know it," Canadian Medical Association president Dr. Albert Schumacher said after the ruling. The ruling means that Quebec residents can pay privately for medical services, even if the services also are available in the provincial health care system.

The court split 3-3 over whether the ban on private insurance violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (similar to our Bill of Rights). Clearly this was a difficult decision since the court delayed a year in issuing its verdict.

The United States has been a safety valve for Canadians unwilling or unable to tolerate the long waits for medical care in their country. Now, the Canadian government must face directly complaints about the long waiting lines, lack of diagnostic equipment, and restrictions on access to the latest therapies, including new medicines.

In an almost laughable defense, lawyers for the government argued the Canadian Supreme Court should not interfere with the government's health care system, considered "one of Canada's finest achievements and a powerful symbol of the national identity." Dr. Chaoulli had persevered in spite of two lower court rulings against him. They had ruled the limitation on individual rights was justifiable in order to prevent the emergence of a two-tier health care system.

Dr. Chaoulli was born in France and obtained his medical degree from the University of Paris, before moving to Canada in 1978. He has practiced medicine in Quebec since 1986. Welcome, Dr. Chaoulli.

Grace-Marie Turner is President of the Galen Institute.



JACQUES CHAOULLI, M.D.: I am happy to be with you today, and I would like to thank The Heritage Foundation and the Galen Institute for hosting this public briefing.

What I did in Canada, anybody willing to do it could have done. My background is quite simple.

I was born in France. During the time I was studying medicine there, I never heard about patients suffering or dying on a waiting list. After graduating in 1978 from the Paris University school of medicine, I moved to Canada. To my great surprise, while practicing as a physician during the 1990s, I saw patients suffering and dying on waiting lists under the Canadian single-payer health care system. Although I didn't have any knowledge of law at the time, I already felt it was unacceptable. Actually, I was even more surprised to see that nobody stood up against the government to claim that those patients were victims of an infringement upon their human rights.

I also felt the Canadian legal community was not up to speed. So, I studied the law, I studied the health care systems from around the world, and I studied more in the field of some medical and surgical specialties for which I noticed important problems of access to timely and quality health care services in Canada.

I launched the court case you know about, representing myself all along, and invited a patient, Mr. Zeliotis, to join me in the legal proceedings as a co-plaintiff, until my legal arguments eventually prevailed before the Canadian Supreme Court.

Astonished Elite
Up to the end, most of the commentators thought I would fail. But on June 9, 2005, I won. Across Canada, the elite was astonished.

The Dean of Canada's Osgoode Hall law school, Patrick Monahan, was quoted by Canada's National Post three days ago as saying, "I didn't expect a majority of the court to uphold Chaoulli's claim."

A constitutional law professor from the same law school, Jamie Cameron, was quoted as being "surprised at the judges' activism.... It's a huge step for Section 7 [of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms}. I think that the constraints that used to apply to Section 7 have pretty much blown out of the water."

It is significant that I won against a number of lawyers and top expert witnesses representing the government side. For example, during the trial I cross-examined Professor Theodore Marmor from Yale University. Justice Deschamps, concurring with the majority, rejected his testimony, on paragraphs 63, 64 and 67 of the judgment.

For many years, in survey after survey, a majority of Canadians said that they were in favor of private health care alongside the public system. After my victory, ordinary people felt a sense of relief to hear that, for the first time ever, the highest court in the land condemned the Canadian single-payer health care system for causing situations in which patients suffered and died on waiting lists, in violation of the rights to life, liberty, and security protected by Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

As a result of this historic judgment, Canadian legal scholars have now classified Canada's legal history about rights and freedoms into two distinct periods: before Chaoulli and after Chaoulli.

For many years, I have been studying constitutional law, most of the time alone, and during a short period of time, in year 2000, as a full-time law student in Canada. As a law student, I argued against most of my Canadian professors of law, whose interpretation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was opposed to my own interpretation. Ironically, five years later, in 2005, the Canadian Supreme Court upheld my own interpretation of that Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

To my knowledge, it is the first time that a court has invalidated a government health care action that had effectively resulted in the suffering or deaths of individuals.

The Canadian Supreme Court ruled that a state may not force an individual to endure poor quality health care services or unreasonable waiting times for medically required services, and it cannot prevent average individuals from getting access to private health insurance.

0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:32 pm
@okie,
Okie- Monterey Jack does not know that "social justice" is a buzzword. It sounds fine--Social( that's a good word)..Justice( who is not in favor of Justice?)
but it has nothing to do with the whole society or with real Justice.

Go to the speeches and the writings of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. There you will find "Social Justice" repeated over and over and over. For them, the word means more more more more welfare for African-Americans who deserve more more more more since the white man enslaved them.

Social Justice means "reparations".Okie.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:42 pm
@genoves,
Quote:

Go to the speeches and the writings of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. There you will find "Social Justice" repeated over and over and over. For them, the word means more more more more welfare for African-Americans who deserve more more more more since the white man enslaved them.


so now we are supposed to let a couple of radical and predigest black guys decide for us what words mean....no thanks.
genoves
 
  -1  
Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It is you who knows nothing about Clinton. Clinton actually accomplished very little. Let's look to see what some scholars( a hundred times more informed and intellectual than you, I am sure) have said.

l. Judge Richard Posner--in "An Affair of State

quote--P. 266

"For those who think that authority depends on mystery, the shattering of the Presidential mystique has been a disaster for which Clinton ought of rights to have paid with his job"

and

2. Dr. Fred Greemstein--Professor of Politics at Princeton( I am sure you have not read him since he uses multisyllabic words. They would be too much for you)

quote--P> 288

"The politically gifted, emotionally challenged William Jefferson Clinton provides yet another indicationof the fundamental importance of emotional intelligence in the modern presidency...Clinton is likely to be remembered as a politically talented underachiever,whose White House experience provides a reminder that in the absence of emotional soundness, the AmericanPresidency is a problematic instrument of democratic governance."

Now, if your IQ is higher than 85, respond to these quotes, if not bloviate on with irrelevancies.
0 Replies
 
 

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