Obama '08?

@Cycloptichorn,

Obama continues to defend his choices even when this stuff becomes evident. So that makes him a dud. After all, he is a product of corrupt Chicago politics, lest you forget it, cyclops. Yet he promised a cleaner operation and he is not delivering, in fact it is corrupting the entire government. Everybody I know, dozens, scoff at Geithner for example, and the only thing keeping them honest and paying taxes is their own honesty, it certainly is not because of example. I believe this is just another step down the slippery slope of making this country into a third world country, with no confidence in a government that is corrupt.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Quote:

Again, when did anyone ever get the idea Obama was qualified to be president?

This from the party that wanted Sarah Palin to be our veep. ROFL

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Obama continues to defend his choices even when this stuff becomes evident. So that makes him a dud. After all, he is a product of corrupt Chicago politics, lest you forget it, cyclops. Yet he promised a cleaner operation and he is not delivering, in fact it is corrupting the entire government. Everybody I know, dozens, scoff at Geithner for example, and the only thing keeping them honest and paying taxes is their own honesty, it certainly is not because of example. I believe this is just another step down the slippery slope of making this country into a third world country, with no confidence in a government that is corrupt.

Well jeez, if Obama's lost the confidence of a bunch of backwood hicks in OK, the state that voted the most against him out of all in the nation, he really must be screwing up Laughing

In the Bush admin, you had overt corruption; where were your complaints about the slippery slope then? When Cheney was directing no-bid contracts to Halliburton, you said what?

Nothing.

That's why nobody really cares to hear you complain now, Okie. We remember.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@genoves,

genoves wrote:

Quote:

I am heartened to hear of the President's philosophy. He did not express this viewpoint when he spoke about the alleged mistakes made in Iraq, etc.etc.

Bush is a whole different story; he lied about WMDs that got us involved in Iraq. That was not an "innocent" mistake. Every time you guys try to compare Obama to Bush, you lose. It's the same story with you guys; tried repeatedly to blame Clinton for all the current financial crisis. It only means Bush did nothing to correct any mistakes made by Clinton: he had eight years to take action, but did nothing.

You guys now want Obama to clean up the mess in less than one month in office.

No common sense, no logic, no brain.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

So you are judge, jury, and executioner, ci. When you have evidence, let us all know, okay? Making stuff up as usual.

2 Replies

@okie,

No, there are plenty of stuff out there is web land that concludes the same thing. I'll just wait to see if the current administration and/or congress makes the charges against the Bush gang for all the laws they broke - both domestic and international. The evidence is all there; it's only a matter of the right people making the charge.

Gore tried, but he's only a "civilian" like the rest of us.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/Bush-Broke-Law-Gore16jan06.htm

and this: http://www.rgj.com/article/20090127/OPED02/901270316/

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

CI
I think the president has already indicated that he does not want to follow this line. The Bush people are going to get away with all the lies and breaking of the laws. In the long run all politicians stick together.

1 Reply

@rabel22,

That's a bad mark on Obama's administration, because in essence he has approved of the law-breaking by Bush which also sets a precedence for future presidents.

It doesn't matter whether Obama follows the laws or not; he has already shielded law breaking by his inaction.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

No, there are plenty of stuff out there is web land that concludes the same thing.

So you are going to use the internet for evidence in a court of law? Good grief, ci, you have totally lost any common sense you ever had. There is stuff on the internet to convict anyone of anything.

Quote:

I'll just wait to see if the current administration and/or congress makes the charges against the Bush gang for all the laws they broke - both domestic and international. The evidence is all there; it's only a matter of the right people making the charge.

Gore tried, but he's only a "civilian" like the rest of us.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/Bush-Broke-Law-Gore16jan06.htm

and this: http://www.rgj.com/article/20090127/OPED02/901270316/

There will be no charges because when the rubber meets the road, there is no substance to the charges. Face it, ci, its all been spin for the last 8 years, nothing more. The main one, WMD, half the world said Hussein had WMD before Bush even got to Washington, so you have played the fool for 8 years, believing all the garbage on the computer about Bush. And the pathetic Joseph Wilson, another guy whose own wife in her book admitted she feared WMD would be used on our troops as they entered Iraq, and she was a specialist in WMD.

Bush was going to declare martial law, remember that, and be a dictator, remember, the nuts were out in full force. The truth is you have nothing.

And in regard to so-called torture and secret prisons, get ready, Obama is going to have an out, he will not eliminate all options in regard to retaining terrorist suspects under special circumstances. And people in Kansas and Colorado are already lining up to keep these people out of their states, they belong offshore, thats the truth of the matter.

If you really wish to prosecute someone that clearly broke laws, why not convict FDR after his death, as a symbol and an example?

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

There will be no charges because when the rubber meets the road, there is no substance to the charges.

okie wrote:

And the appearance of impropriety is enough to disqualify him. We don't need public officials with these kinds of black clouds of questionable behavior, which by the way do not require guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Hm. Different yardstick, eh?

1 Reply

@old europe,

I agree, but if the black cloud is total political spin, then a totally different situation. Daschle was apologizing profusely, admitting guilt, and everyone agreed both sides of the aisle, that was not a political issue, it was a matter of not paying taxes. Everything in opposition to Bush is totally political, opinion, spin, thats it, and they know it.

As I said, if clearly breaking the law is important after the fact, prosecute FDR to set an example, after his death.

By the way, how did Geithner slip through, that seems like an inconsistency now. Where is Obama's leadership on ethics?

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

I agree, but if the black cloud is total political spin, then a totally different situation. Daschle was apologizing profusely, admitting guilt, and everyone agreed both sides of the aisle, that was not a political issue, it was a matter of not paying taxes. Everything in opposition to Bush is totally political, opinion, spin, thats it, and they know it.

Are you saying that whenever the administration says one thing, and the opposition says another thing, there's political spin involved, and therefore an appearance of impropriety is not enough to disqualify somebody?

2 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

Are you saying that whenever the administration says one thing, and the opposition says another thing, there's political spin involved

That's what I was told on one of the stimulus bill threads just yesterday by Cyclops, Drewdad, and apparently Nimh feels the same way; I was directed towards his blog.

Questioning the administration is equalivant to political spin.

1 Reply

One thing is for sure; it is a refreshing change to have a president to admit he screwed up and made mistakes.

Quote:

Obama said he was "angry and disappointed" to lose Daschle and Nancy Killefer, who also withdrew her nomination today over a failure to pay some taxes. And the president also took part of the blame. "I appointed these folks. I think they are outstanding people. I think Tom Daschle as an example could have led this health-care effort ... better than just about anybody," the president remarked. "But as he acknowledged, this was a mistake. I don't think it was intentional on his part but it was a serious mistake. He owned up to it and ultimately made a decision that we couldn't afford the distraction, and I've got to own up to my mistake which is that, ultimately, it's important for this administration to send a message that there aren't two sets of rules -- you know, one for prominent people and one for ordinary folks who have to pay their taxes."

Obama later added, "I'm here on television saying I screwed up, and that's part of the era of responsibility. It's not never making mistakes; it's owning up to them and trying to make sure you never repeat them and that's what we intend to do." He also offered one more mea culpa: "[S]o, did I screw up in this situation? Absolutely and I'm willing to take my lumps, you know that's part of the job here. But I think it's important not to paint a broad brush here, because overall, not only have we gotten in place a -- functioning government in record time -- but overall the quality of [the other appointments] are outstanding."

source

As for people questioning the president, I hope they keep it up and keep Obama on his toes the whole time he is president. If he messes up, I want it pointed out and corrected. He should be held accountable for every decision he makes good or bad and I hope the atmosphere in his administration encourages an openness which was missing big time for the last eight years.

2 Replies

@revel,

revel wrote:

One thing is for sure; it is a refreshing change to have a president to admit he screwed up and made mistakes.

THAT is a relief. I'm glad he owned up to it. I just wish some of his supporters would do the same.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Quote:

There will be no charges because when the rubber meets the road, there is no substance to the charges.

Don't be so sure; congress has asked Cheney to show up for questioning, and he's not using "presidential privilege" as a way out of his troubles. He seems more willing to cooperate with congress now.

We shall see how this all turns out; doesn't look too promising for Cheney and gang.

As a matter of fact, there's an article in this morning's newspaper of how the Bush administration allowed innocent people to be rounded up without any legal cause; the majority were innocent people.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

old europe wrote:

Are you saying that whenever the administration says one thing, and the opposition says another thing, there's political spin involved

That's what I was told on one of the stimulus bill threads just yesterday by Cyclops, Drewdad, and apparently Nimh feels the same way; I was directed towards his blog.

Questioning the administration is equalivant to political spin.

No way! haha.

Spin isn't a different opinion than that of the administration; it's an opinion which relies on less-than-logical constructions in order to justify what is at heart a partisan opinion.

The Republicans' current batch of bitching isn't spin b/c they disagree; it's spin, b/c they disagree politically, and are frantically searching for data to back it up. That's what leads to complaining about 1% of a spending bill; it gives the appearance of rational opposition when in reality it's not addressing the meat of the question.

The Republicans want to oppose the stimulus without seeming like they are against helping people out; even though they mostly are against helping people out. So they find little items to nit-pick, and then force the Dems to negotiate on them, and then they don't vote on the bill anyway. This is b/c they have partisan and political reasons to vote against it, but they don't want it to seem that way. Hence, a list of 'waste' is put out into the media and dutifuly copied into message boards and conversations by those who read it, making it look as if the Republicans are actually presenting principled opposition to the bill.

They are not.

That's the essence of spin; a misdirecting move that distracts you away from the truth of a situation. It's not about opinions differing from the administration; it's about being disingenuous.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

That's true from what I hear only about 1% of the stimulus package can be considered "waste."

0 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
I agree, but if the black cloud is total political spin, then a totally different situation. Daschle was apologizing profusely, admitting guilt, and everyone agreed both sides of the aisle, that was not a political issue, it was a matter of not paying taxes. Everything in opposition to Bush is totally political, opinion, spin, thats it, and they know it.

Are you saying that whenever the administration says one thing, and the opposition says another thing, there's political spin involved, and therefore an appearance of impropriety is not enough to disqualify somebody?

Equating Daschle not paying taxes, everybody admits to, including Daschle himself, and the disagreement over policy differences, that is the height of intellectual dishonesty and you know it, oe. An appearance of impropriety was clear in Daschle's case. In Bush's case, the Democrats spun what they claimed was an appearance of impropriety and it was nothing more than policy differences, no impropriety. Democrats want the public to believe that Bush was improper, and to a large part they were successful in convincing alot of people of that, but it was far from fact. In fact I view their entire media blitz as highly improper, the mainsream media should resign.

2 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

In Bush's case, the Democrats spun what they claimed was an appearance of impropriety and it was nothing more than policy differences, no impropriety.

Bullshit.

Quote:

In fact I view their entire media blitz as highly improper, the mainsream media should resign.

Perhaps you should resign from amateur analysis, as you seem to be doing a poor job of it.

You do realize that several Bush appointees didn't just not make it into office, they went to jail - don't you?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know