okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:43 am
@revel,
revel wrote:

One thing is for sure; it is a refreshing change to have a president to admit he screwed up and made mistakes.

Nice to know that we now have a self confessed "srew up" for president. That genders lots of confidence. And remember, the ethics, Daschle was withdrawn only after Obama and Daschle realized it was for their political preservation, not because they cared about ethics. And when is Geithner going to resign? When? We don't need a tax evader to oversee the IRS. Where is the ethics?

For that matter, withdraw the entire stimulus package, it is a total monumental screw up bill.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:45 am
@okie,
Watch this, the funny part is the replayed ad of Daschles, driving his old car on one of his campaign ads. It has been known some of these guys are total hypocrites, but this is a great example of it.

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21828321/ethical_implosion.htm
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:48 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:

Nice to know that we now have a self confessed "srew up" for president.


This from the guy who rarely gets anything right on a2k. His momma encouraged him too often in the wrong direction; he thinks he's right when he's wrong - most of the time. I doubt very much okie can chew gum and walk at the same time.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:50 am
@okie,
LOL..

It's always funny when RWers lose track of reality. But that is what happens when they listen to Hannity.

Daschle didn't have a car and driver when he ran for office okie. He only had them AFTER he was no longer in the Senate. Driving an old car in a campaign ad can hardly be considered hypocritical.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:55 am
@parados,
It doesn't matter whether it was before or after, parados. He ended up doing exactly what his ad made fun of, thats the point. But I guess you are too partisan to see it. You never will. You never admit anything you had wrong, never. Even Obama is better than that, he admits to being a "screw up."
Advocate
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:58 am
@okie,
Your bias makes you a laughing stock. Don't you read? There has been a ton of evidence in the media, repeated ad nauseam. Do you remember of the list of over 900 lies that Bush and his people told relative to attacking Iraq? You will probably lie and deny seeing it.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 10:58 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Even Obama is better than that, he admits to being a "screw up."


He admits that he DID "screw up."

NOT

That he IS a "screw up."


You know there's a difference.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 11:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

In the Bush admin, you had overt corruption; where were your complaints about the slippery slope then? When Cheney was directing no-bid contracts to Halliburton, you said what?


This is a myth. Halliburton and Kellog Brown & Root, two very large international engineering, construction, operations firms were awarded long-term contracts for logistics and mobilization support of potential contingency operations in the Persian Gulf area during the Clinton administration by the DOD. This was a long-standing standard practice to have contracted support in readiness in case of military action. In the normal course of events during the Iraqi intervention task orders were assigned to these contracts without further time-consuming competition - exactly as designed and intended in the original award of the contracts years earlier.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 11:06 am
@georgeob1,
George, they know this, this has been pointed out numerous times, but they ignore context and reality.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 11:33 am
@georgeob1,
Here are the chronology of Halliburton and KBR (from Wiki):

Quote:
* 1960: Name Shortened to Halliburton Company
* 1961: Headquarters - Dallas, Texas
* 1962: Acquisition of Brown and Root of Houston, Texas
* 1982: Workforce was 115,000
* 1982: Energy Industry Decline
* 1988: Acquisition of Geophysical Service Incorporated from Texas Instruments
* 1988: Halliburton Logging Services
* 1988: Acquisition of Gearhart, which had previously acquired Geosource in 1985
* 1991: Workforce was 73,000

[edit] 1990s

* Following the end of the Gulf War, the Pentagon, led by then Defense Secretary Dick Cheney, paid Hallibutton subsidiary Brown & Root Services over $8.5 million to study the use of private military forces with American soldiers in combat zones.[12]
* Thomas H. Cruikshank, who served as chairman and CEO from 1989 until 1995, was replaced by Dick Cheney.
* In the aftermath of Operation Desert Storm in Kuwait in 1991, Halliburton crews helped bring 320 burning oil wells under control.
* In the early 1990s Halliburton was found to be in violation of federal trade barriers in Iraq and Libya, having sold these countries dual-use oil drilling equipment and, through its former subsidiary, Halliburton Logging Services, sending six pulse neutron generators to Libya. After having pleaded guilty, the company was fined $1.2 million, with another $2.61 million in penalties.[13]
* In the Balkans conflict in the 1990s, Kellogg Brown-Root (KBR) supported U.S. peacekeeping forces in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Hungary with food, laundry, transportation and other lifecycle management services.
* In 1998 Halliburton merged with Dresser Industries, which included Kellogg. Prescott Bush was a director of Dresser Industries, which is now part of Halliburton. Former United States president George H. W. Bush worked for Dresser Industries in several positions from 1948"1951, before he founded Zapata Corporation.

[edit] 2000s

* In December 2000, KBR agreed to build two FPSOs for Petrobras (Barracuda and Caratinga). By the time the project was complete, KBR had lost approximately $1billion on the contract.

* On 10 April 2001 the Dresser division (excluding the former Kellogg division) entered an agreement to separate itself once again from Halliburton by management purchasing its equity, the new company to be called Dresser Inc.

* In 2001 The Wall Street Journal reported that a subsidiary of Halliburton Energy Services called Halliburton Products and Services Ltd. (HPS) opened an office in Tehran. The company, HPS, operated on the ninth floor of a new north Tehran tower block. Although HPS was incorporated in the Cayman Islands in 1975 and is "non-American", it shares both the logo and name of Halliburton Energy Services and, according to Dow Jones Newswires offers services from Halliburton units world-wide through its Tehran office. Such behavior, undertaken while Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, may have violated the Trading with the Enemy Act. A Halliburton spokesman, responding to inquiries from Dow Jones, said "This is not breaking any laws. This is a foreign subsidiary and no US person is involved in this. No US person is facilitating any transaction. We are not performing directly in that country." No legal action has been taken against the company or its officials.[14]

* In 2002, Judicial Watch, a public action law firm, filed suit on behalf of shareholders against Halliburton, its current and former directors, and its accounting firm, Arthur Andersen LLP and Arthur Andersen Worldwide, for alleged accounting irregularities, said to be profit inflation by accounting for cost overruns as revenue. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) investigated the same issue. Halliburton counters that the practice was approved by its accounting firm, Arthur Andersen, and conforms to generally accepted accounting practices. In August, 2004, Halliburton paid a $7.5 million fine to settle the issue.

* In April 2002, KBR was awarded a $7 million contract to construct steel holding cells at Camp X-Ray.[15]

* From 1995"2002, Halliburton Brown & Root Services Corp was awarded at least $2.5 billion but has spent considerably less to construct and run military bases, some in secret locations, as part of the Army's Logistics Civil Augmentation Program. This contract was a cost plus 13% contract and BRS employees were trained on how to pass GAO audits to ensure maximum profits were attained. It was also grounds for termination in the Balkans if any BRS employee spoke of Dick Cheney being CEO. BRS was awarded and re-awarded contracts termed "non-competitive" due to BRS being the only company capable to pull off the missions. DYNACORP actually won the competitively let 2nd contract but never received any work orders in the Balkans. [12]

* In November 2002, KBR was tasked to plan oil well firefighting in Iraq, and in February 2003 was issued a contract to conduct the work. Critics contend that it was a no-bid contract, awarded due to Dick Cheney's position as Vice President. Concern was also expressed that the contract could allow KBR to pump and distribute Iraqi oil.[16] Others contend, however, that this was not strictly a no-bid contract, and was invoked under a contract that KBR won "in a competitive bid process."[17] The contract, referred to as LOGCAP, is a contingency-based contract that is invoked at the convenience of the Army. Because the contract is essentially a retainer, specific orders are not competitively bid (as the overall contract was).

* In May 2003, Halliburton revealed in SEC filings that its KBR subsidiary had paid a Nigerian official $2.4 million in bribes in order to receive favorable tax treatment.[18][19]

* As of 2003, Halliburton was still operating in Iran. CNN, in a report entitled "US companies are operating in Iran despite sanctions," reported that a Halliburton spokesperson told the news agency that HPS helps Iran build large oil rigs in the country's south.

* In February 2004, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report on government contractorsPDF (774 KiB) that use offshore tax havens. It ranks the contractors in terms of the size of the contractors and provides information about how many subsidiaries the companies have offshore. Using data of the end of 2001, Halliburton ranked 30, had 17 offshore companies in tax havens, and 131 foreign subsidiaries.

* In October 2004, Halliburton opened a new 250,000-square-foot (23,000 m2) facility on 35 acres, replacing an older facility that opened in 1948, in Rock Springs, Wyoming. With over approximately 500 employees, Halliburton is one of the largest private employers in Sweetwater County.[20]

* In September 2005, under a competitive bid contract it won in July 2005, to provide debris removal and other emergency work associated with natural disasters, KBR started assessment of the cleanup and reconstruction of Gulf Coast U.S. Marine and U.S. Navy facilities that were damaged in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The facilities include: Naval Air Station Pascagoula, Naval Station Gulfport, Stennis Space Center in Mississippi, two smaller U.S. Navy facilities in New Orleans and others in the Gulf Coast region. KBR has had similar contracts for more than 15 years.

* On January 24, 2006 Halliburton’s subsidiary KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root) announced that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the Department of Homeland Security to build "temporary detention and processing facilities" or internment camps. According to Business Wire, this contract will be executed in cooperation with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. Critics point to the Guantanamo Bay detention camp as a possible model. According to a press release posted on the Halliburton website, "The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities."[21]

* On April 15, 2006, Halliburton filed a registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to sell up to 20 percent of its KBR stock on the NYSE under the ticker symbol "KBR", as part of an eventual plan for KBR to be a separate company from Halliburton.[22]

* In February, 2008, a hard disk and two computers containing classified information were stolen from Petrobras while in Halliburton's custody. Allegedly, the content inside the stolen material, was data on the recently discovered Tupi oil field. Initial police inquiries suggest that it could be a common container theft operation. The container was a ramshackle in complete disorder indicating that thieves were after "valuables and not only laptops", said an expert consulted by the daily newspaper Folha de S. Paulo.[23]

[edit] Iraq controversy
Sister project Wikinews has related news: Civilians testify to Halliburton fraud, coercion

Halliburton is the only company mentioned by Osama bin Laden in an April 2004 tape in which he claims that "this is a war [in Afghanistan] that is benefiting major companies with billions of dollars."[24]

Internet pundit John Burnett has described Halliburton's deals as recalling a Vietnam-Era controversy. He claims Vice President Cheney's ties to the company are reminiscent of President Lyndon B. Johnson's relationships with Brown & Root.[1]
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 12:55 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

In the Bush admin, you had overt corruption; where were your complaints about the slippery slope then? When Cheney was directing no-bid contracts to Halliburton, you said what?


This is a myth. Halliburton and Kellog Brown & Root, two very large international engineering, construction, operations firms were awarded long-term contracts for logistics and mobilization support of potential contingency operations in the Persian Gulf area during the Clinton administration by the DOD. This was a long-standing standard practice to have contracted support in readiness in case of military action. In the normal course of events during the Iraqi intervention task orders were assigned to these contracts without further time-consuming competition - exactly as designed and intended in the original award of the contracts years earlier.


This is disingenuous, and you know it. While we may have been in a rush at the beginning of the war, there certainly was no rush for the several years that followed - and an extremely poor record of performance, coupled with documented fraud and corruption, should have been reason enough to re-examine their contracts more than once during the course of the Bush administration.

Yet, this was never done. What diligence was displayed by the Republicans in Congress and the Exec branch towards Halliburton and KBR? None. Instead the companies were shielded from the law and protected from prosecution by the Bush administration.

There were definite conflicts of interest, at the higher levels, yet you seem to believe that stuff like that just doesn't matter. It does. It's an inevitable path to corruption. And none of you Conservatives said a damn thing about it, no matter how many instances of theft and over-charging, soldiers being served tainted water, electrocuted in showers, or women being raped. It's not something to be proud of.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:26 pm
Is Obama going to take away all of the tens of millions paid to Franklin Raines, Obama's one time trusted economic counselor, due to his 500,000 k cap? How about all the other people that are in industries propped up by the government? What about speaking fees ex-presidents, congressmen, and other people that got to where they are solely because of the nanny state they worked for virtually their entire lives? When will a reporter ask him this question?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:28 pm
@okie,
okie, What about it? You're just jealous. The first question should be: is it legal?
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, is it legal to limit pay, as conducted in a private company, maybe Obama should check that out?

By the way, does the 500k apply to moviestars and sports stars? After all, can he claim these industries never got federal money for anything?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:33 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Is Obama going to take away all of the tens of millions paid to Franklin Raines, Obama's one time trusted economic counselor, due to his 500,000 k cap? How about all the other people that are in industries propped up by the government? What about speaking fees ex-presidents, congressmen, and other people that got to where they are solely because of the nanny state they worked for virtually their entire lives? When will a reporter ask him this question?


Does Franklin Raines run one of the companies accepting TARP monies?

If so, my guess is yes, he will be.

The rest of your bitching is useless. Nobody forces anyone to pay fees for someone to come speak, people make that determination on their own.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The issue isn't TARP. Its federal money, and TARP is not the only federal money that has propped up stuff. Such as does the 500k apply to moviestars and sports stars? After all, can he claim these industries never got federal money for anything, subsidization of stadiums, etc., I'm sure a little research could turn up lots of things? I have just mentioned the tip of the iceberg. Truth is, Obama does not have a clue what he is doing by getting into this.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:41 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

The issue isn't TARP. Its federal money, and TARP is not the only federal money that has propped up stuff. Such as does the 500k apply to moviestars and sports stars? After all, can he claim these industries never got federal money for anything, subsidization of stadiums, etc., I'm sure a little research could turn up lots of things? I have just mentioned the tip of the iceberg. Truth is, Obama does not have a clue what he is doing by getting into this.


The truth is, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It's pathetically obvious, Okie, that you are casting about for whatever you can find to attack Obama with.

Just get over it. Your side got your asses beat, live with it, and try and be a productive poster discussing policy instead of a whiny little bitch. Please.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:43 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Such as does the 500k apply to moviestars and sports stars?


okie wrote:
I have just mentioned the tip of the iceberg.


From here, it looks more like you're going bonkers with impotent rage....
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:44 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

In the Bush admin, you had overt corruption; where were your complaints about the slippery slope then? When Cheney was directing no-bid contracts to Halliburton, you said what?


This is a myth. Halliburton and Kellog Brown & Root, two very large international engineering, construction, operations firms were awarded long-term contracts for logistics and mobilization support of potential contingency operations in the Persian Gulf area during the Clinton administration by the DOD. This was a long-standing standard practice to have contracted support in readiness in case of military action. In the normal course of events during the Iraqi intervention task orders were assigned to these contracts without further time-consuming competition - exactly as designed and intended in the original award of the contracts years earlier.


This is disingenuous, and you know it. While we may have been in a rush at the beginning of the war, there certainly was no rush for the several years that followed - and an extremely poor record of performance, coupled with documented fraud and corruption, should have been reason enough to re-examine their contracts more than once during the course of the Bush administration.

Yet, this was never done. What diligence was displayed by the Republicans in Congress and the Exec branch towards Halliburton and KBR? None. Instead the companies were shielded from the law and protected from prosecution by the Bush administration.

There were definite conflicts of interest, at the higher levels, yet you seem to believe that stuff like that just doesn't matter. It does. It's an inevitable path to corruption. And none of you Conservatives said a damn thing about it, no matter how many instances of theft and over-charging, soldiers being served tainted water, electrocuted in showers, or women being raped. It's not something to be proud of.

Cycloptichorn

I submit that you don't really know much about what you are writing about here. The rapid mobilization for war doesn't permit all of the contract niceties that you imply. Moreover, despite all the hoopla the actual overcharges documented in the Gulf region were a good deal smaller than those on Ted Kennedy's Big Dig road & tunnel project in Boston. If you are really interested in venality and corruption in contracting just wait until the stimulus package gets going.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2009 02:49 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

In the Bush admin, you had overt corruption; where were your complaints about the slippery slope then? When Cheney was directing no-bid contracts to Halliburton, you said what?


This is a myth. Halliburton and Kellog Brown & Root, two very large international engineering, construction, operations firms were awarded long-term contracts for logistics and mobilization support of potential contingency operations in the Persian Gulf area during the Clinton administration by the DOD. This was a long-standing standard practice to have contracted support in readiness in case of military action. In the normal course of events during the Iraqi intervention task orders were assigned to these contracts without further time-consuming competition - exactly as designed and intended in the original award of the contracts years earlier.


This is disingenuous, and you know it. While we may have been in a rush at the beginning of the war, there certainly was no rush for the several years that followed - and an extremely poor record of performance, coupled with documented fraud and corruption, should have been reason enough to re-examine their contracts more than once during the course of the Bush administration.

Yet, this was never done. What diligence was displayed by the Republicans in Congress and the Exec branch towards Halliburton and KBR? None. Instead the companies were shielded from the law and protected from prosecution by the Bush administration.

There were definite conflicts of interest, at the higher levels, yet you seem to believe that stuff like that just doesn't matter. It does. It's an inevitable path to corruption. And none of you Conservatives said a damn thing about it, no matter how many instances of theft and over-charging, soldiers being served tainted water, electrocuted in showers, or women being raped. It's not something to be proud of.

Cycloptichorn

I submit that you don't really know much about what you are writing about here.


Submitted, but you have not provided evidence to support your proposition.

Quote:
The rapid mobilization for war doesn't permit all of the contract niceties that you imply.


Fine; what's your excuse for the several years the war went on, in which they continually were awarded extremely high-value, no-bid contracts? There was no rush whatsoever and a very poor track record, even from the start.

Quote:
Moreover, despite all the hoopla the actual overcharges documented in the Gulf region were a good deal smaller than those on Ted Kennedy's Big Dig road & tunnel project in Boston. If you are really interested in venality and corruption in contracting just wait until the stimulus package gets going.


Falling back on the 'Dem Dems are worse!' defense is essentially the same as admitting that the allegations of corruption, overcharging, poor service, and active coverups of rapes are accurate; but you just don't give a ****.

As I said before, that's not something to be proud of.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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