Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 10:17 am
@H2O MAN,
It is great to get a dose of the truth (and it is the truth). Do you think we are all children who should be fed pablum. O is telling us that serious steps must be taken, and that we will have to make sacrifices. If this scares you, check with your clergy or shrink.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 10:37 am
@Advocate,

The dumbmasses hang on every word their messiah utters and he is
using fear to garner their support for the changes he wants to make.

Maybe the dumbmasses need to check with their clergy or shrink...
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 10:54 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:


The dumbmasses hang on every word their messiah utters and he is
using fear to garner their support for the changes he wants to make.

Maybe the dumbmasses need to check with their clergy or shrink...


Remember when you said all this stuff, like, a few months ago? Over and over? And then Obama WON THE ELECTION? And then you went away for a little while?

That was awesome.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 11:04 am
@Gargamel,


What's really awesome is how the dumbmasses that elected O boy continue to ignore warnings of the coming storm O boy is stirring up.

The ignorance of the left is awesome.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 01:38 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2OMAN, who is Obama? Is he the turtle on a fencepost, put there by his handlers, and now he has no clue? Or is he actually the engineer on the train, or is he merely a passenger that wanted to go to the promised land?

I think he wanted to be the engineer, or maybe the conductor for the left's grand train, but he is so dishonest he will not tell us where his train is going, plus he has never dreamed he could actually drive the train or be the conductor, so now he is totally clueless. Beware if this guy actually wakes up to the potential of his newfound status, and thinks he is good at it. Perish the thought. The guy is in over his head big time, and the train is headed for nowhere. Does he know it has brakes and does he even want to use them or know how to use them, or is it full speed ahead to the light at the end of the tunnel, which he thinks is sunlight, but is another train bigger than his.

Even the Obama voters must wake up today and wonder, what did I do? They aren't admitting it yet, or maybe they are so delusional as to believe they are in for the most wonderful ride they could ever imagine, to the promised land.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 01:42 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

H2OMAN, who is Obama? Is he the turtle on a fencepost, put there by his handlers, and now he has no clue? Or is he actually the engineer on the train, or is he merely a passenger that wanted to go to the promised land?

I think he wanted to be the engineer, or maybe the conductor for the left's grand train, but he is so dishonest he will not tell us where his train is going, plus he has never dreamed he could actually drive the train or be the conductor, so now he is totally clueless. Beware if this guy actually wakes up to the potential of his newfound status, and thinks he is good at it. Perish the thought. The guy is in over his head big time, and the train is headed for nowhere. Does he know it has brakes and does he even want to use them or know how to use them, or is it full speed ahead to the light at the end of the tunnel, which he thinks is sunlight, but is another train bigger than his.

Even the Obama voters must wake up today and wonder, what did I do? They aren't admitting it yet, or maybe they are so delusional as to believe they are in for the most wonderful ride they could ever imagine, to the promised land.


As long as you are upset - but of course with no specific criticisms, just a bunch of idiotic smears against him - we know Obama's doing something right, Okie.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 01:49 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Even the Obama voters must wake up today and wonder, what did I do? They aren't admitting it yet, or maybe they are so delusional as to believe they are in for the most wonderful ride they could ever imagine, to the promised land.


Or maybe they are just waiting until he is actually inaugurated before reaching for bad metaphors for his presidency.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 02:10 pm
@H2O MAN,
Gloom and doom is just reality; ignoring it ain't going to make it go away.

Quote:
NEW YORK - Investors sent stocks sharply lower Friday after the U.S. unemployment rate shot above 7 percent, signaling that Americans will be sticking to their tightened budgets for a while. The Dow Jones industrials were down more than 100 points.

The Labor Department said employers cut 524,000 jobs in December, a smaller decline than economists' forecast for a loss of 550,000 jobs. But the unemployment rate jumped to a 16-year high of 7.2 percent " more than the 7 percent economists predicted " from 6.8 percent in November.

The bad news was not a huge shock to Wall Street, but it still stung.

"People say that they know how bad the economy is. But they don't know how it feels to have the reality hit home," said Stu Schweitzer, global markets strategist at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank. "It's not the facts " it's how the facts feel. And it feels terrible to have so many Americans losing jobs, and so many more likely to follow in the coming months."

Rising unemployment tends to erode consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity. For all of 2008, the economy lost 2.6 million jobs " the most since 1945. Retailers have been reporting dismal holiday sales figures, and Wall Street is concerned about how long the economy will be suffering a pullback in consumer spending.

President-elect Barack Obama on Friday called December's jobs loss "a stark reminder of how urgently action is needed" to revive the nation's staggering economy. Obama is planning on a stimulus package costing about $800 billion, consisting of tax cuts and other ways to try to help individuals and businesses.

Nick Kalivas, vice president of financial research at the brokerage MF Global, said he believes investors will start buying back into the market again, but slowly and cautiously. "There's nothing in the short-term that's going to give people real satisfaction," he said.

In early afternoon trading, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 102.98, or 1.18 percent, to 8,639.48.

Broader stock indicators also lost ground. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 13.41, or 1.47 percent, to 896.34, and the Nasdaq composite index fell 31.56, or 1.95 percent, to 1,585.45.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies dropped 14.38, or 2.9 percent, to 487.63.

In other economic data, the Commerce Department reported that businesses cut wholesale inventories for a third straight month in November, while sales continued to plunge. Wholesale inventories dropped 0.6 percent, and sales were down a record 7.1 percent.

Bond prices rose after Friday's grim economic data. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 2.37 percent from 2.44 percent late Thursday. The yield on the three-month T-bill, considered one of the safest short-term investments, slipped to 0.07 percent from 0.08 percent compared with late Thursday.



msnbc

H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 02:30 pm
@revel,



O boy is quickly becoming the master at forecasting gloom and doom.
Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 02:39 pm
I'd like to suggest that it is far too soon to start knocking the Obama Presidency. As Conservative Republicans we harbor some pretty serious concerns about the man, his ability and most especially his agenda. We voiced those concerns during the election, but the voters clearly preferred the Democrats to our ticket. That is behind us now, and the man deserves our support and best wishes during a particularly challenging time in our history.

The economic crisis is not going to be easily solved, and yet it must be dealt with effectively. The President-elect has shown his concern and made the economy one of his highest priorities. He seems to have assembled a competent group of economic advisers, and he will have the willing support of the Congress. My fears are that in trying to "spend our way out of the crisis" this time may lead to more nationalization, central planning by bureaucrats antagonistic to free enterprise, a larger National Debt, and inflation. Maybe not, we must be patient and await the actual program the new administration and Congress adopt. I expect in the coming years we will be constantly balancing assured economic security against the risks that always attend free enterprise. The pipe-dreams of socialism are seductive.

The international situation will not standby idly waiting for us to get our financial house in order. The situation is Iraq appears to have been steadily improving, but the inability of the Pakistani government to control what happens from its soil should be of increasing concern. Logistical supply of our forces in Afghanistan are threatened by the Radical Islamic Movement (RIM) that is deeply rooted in the Pakistani intelligence service and the terrorist groups supported by the Pakistani people. We may very well see increased nuclear tensions between Pakistan and India, the most sensitive nuclear standoff at this time. Iran's bid to seize leadership of the region by sponsoring terrorism, and increasing its military capability to directly attack Israel and/or shut down petroleum exports would be difficult for any new President. Will Iran adopt the same sort of approach to dealing with President Obama that they used against President Carter? The whole world, and especially the governments and people of Soutwest Asia are closely watching what the Obama Administration will do, as opposed to what it seems to have said during the campaign.

There is a resurgence of Soviet expansionism with a willingness to show some 'muscle' (invasion, control of petroleum supplies, and sending naval assets further afield. Are they testing how far they can go with Obama?

The leadership of the DPRK will almost certainly be changed during the coming four years. There is no clear successor to Kim Jong-Il, and a struggle between his sons (Jong-Nam, Jong-Cheol, and Jong-Eun) alone could lead to anarchism in the North, and there are other potential parties who might try to sieze power. If it weren't for the nuclear potential involved, a period of chaos on the peninsula might not seem so urgent. However, chaos in the DPRK could very easily bring the military forces of the PCR and the United States up to a state where a single mis-step could lead to an end of the Korean War Cease Fire.

The economic crisis that we are facing isn't just an internal matter, but, with a world economy that is so interlocked and interdependent, has serious implications for the entire world. The PCR must maintain something like a 15% annual growth just to keep pace with its growing population. Any slow down could first cripple the government, and lead to risky adventurism.

These are serious things, and I'm still convinced that John McCain was the best candidate to handle them. However, President-elect Obama was the People's choice, and now he must deliver. What he does in the coming months may upset those of us on the Conservative side of the aisle, but we had better hope that President Obama is right and successful because the alternatives may be very terrible for the country and the world at large.

H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 03:16 pm
@Asherman,
Asherman wrote:

I'd like to suggest that it is far too soon to start knocking the Obama Presidency.



Given O boy's total lack of experience in balancing a budget, running a company, making payroll and downsizing in an effort
to save money... given his total lack of experience doing anything that was not totally self serving... I strongly disagree.
Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 04:50 pm
@H2O MAN,
We share your concerns, but for the sake of the nation we must hope that the new administration will rise successful to the many challenges of our times.

Obama isn't the first person to sit in the Office with little or no preparation for it. Truman was pretty much a failure at everything and was little more than a foot soldier in the Pendergast Machine before becoming an ignored VP. Chest Arthur knew only the corruption of collecting customs in New York before becoming President, yet he put Civil Service in place and ruthlessly rooted out corruption. Andrew Johnson was a functional illiterate pushed onto the national stage by an ambitious wife. Challenged by his times, he kept Lincoln's more moderate treatment of the defeated states as his guiding star.

We need to separate the wild rhetoric of the campaign trail from the more complex realities of the candidates themselves. The Left hated Bush from the beginning, and they never let up with their hate mongering, distortions, and efforts to undermine his authority and ability to govern. Instead of trying to help the President achieve his goals, they undercut him at every opportunity. For many on the Left, finding any excuse to smear smear the President became more important than making a realistic assessment of the administration. It was important to them and their view of the world that the President fail, and the more and bigger the failure the better. It never seemed to occur to them that those smears contributed to failure, and that the consequence of failed policies harmed the nation.

How can we now not give our full support to the new President and hope that his stated goals will be met successfully? We may have serious doubts that he can 'fix' the financial crisis without undercutting free enterprise and setting off an inflationary spiral that might even make things worse, but I sure hope we're wrong about that. His policies may play into the hands of our country's sworn enemies, but we should certainly hope that we are mistaken.

We conservatives should support the man, his goals and his administration. If things go wrong, as many of us fear they might, then will be the time to come up with alternatives. In the meantime, we should act as a "safety" against specific policies and initiatives within the government. I sincerely hope that the time will not come when conservatives begin acting like Leftists mouthing shrill invective and stirring up public resistance to the government. We have conservative representatives in Congress to represent our views, let them do the work we elected them to do. If, as we fear, the policies of this administration are fatally flawed the results will soon enough be evident to all. Give the lad a fair chance to show us we are wrong.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:15 pm
@teenyboone,
Quote:
What can anyone possibly blame Obama for? He hasn't been installed yet, while Bush is leaving Obama with the biggest deficit ever and a legacy of cruelty and outright treason committed in our names!


The second that Obama is sworn, he is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens.
That includes the deficit, the debt, any spending, unemployment, the war, EVERYTHING.

As for the deficit, Obama has already said that he plans to spend around 1 billion dollars on new spending.
Thats money the govt doesnt have.
That will make the deficit even bigger then it is now.
That will be Obama's fault.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:20 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
What can anyone possibly blame Obama for? He hasn't been installed yet, while Bush is leaving Obama with the biggest deficit ever and a legacy of cruelty and outright treason committed in our names!


The second that Obama is sworn, he is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens.
That includes the deficit, the debt, any spending, unemployment, the war, EVERYTHING.

As for the deficit, Obama has already said that he plans to spend around 1 billion dollars on new spending.
Thats money the govt doesnt have.
That will make the deficit even bigger then it is now.
That will be Obama's fault.


You mean 'trillion,' not billion.

Your protestations of what is and isn't Obama's 'fault' ring hollow; you don't actually care about any of these issues. Or else perhaps we would have heard something about them from you for the last several years.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:21 pm
@mysteryman,
(As a total aside, mm, please join us on the A2K NFL Superbowl thread. We look forward to your playing).
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Your protestations of what is and isn't Obama's 'fault' ring hollow; you don't actually care about any of these issues. Or else perhaps we would have heard something about them from you for the last several years.


Thats actually funny, coming from you.
You (and others) all made the exact same statement when Bush was elected, especially after 9/11.
You all claimed that it was totally the fault of Bush because he was President.

And you all said that since Clinton was no longer President, he couldnt be held accountable and to stop bringing him up.

So, after 1/20, Obama will be President and Bush will be ancient history.
So, using the same logic you used, NOTHING Bush did will matter nor will you be able to use him as an excuse for any failure of Obama.

You made the rules, now live with them.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:41 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Your protestations of what is and isn't Obama's 'fault' ring hollow; you don't actually care about any of these issues. Or else perhaps we would have heard something about them from you for the last several years.


Thats actually funny, coming from you.
You (and others) all made the exact same statement when Bush was elected, especially after 9/11.
You all claimed that it was totally the fault of Bush because he was President.

And you all said that since Clinton was no longer President, he couldnt be held accountable and to stop bringing him up.

So, after 1/20, Obama will be President and Bush will be ancient history.
So, using the same logic you used, NOTHING Bush did will matter nor will you be able to use him as an excuse for any failure of Obama.

You made the rules, now live with them.


I joined this site in 2004; so perhaps you have me confused with someone else, MM.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:44 pm
@mysteryman,

Mysteryman, you know better than stating facts to cement your valid points... you're not playing fair!

Cyclotroll, it's easy to confuse you with the rest of the dumbmasses - live with it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 06:28 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Asherman wrote:

I'd like to suggest that it is far too soon to start knocking the Obama Presidency.



Given O boy's total lack of experience in balancing a budget, running a company, making payroll and downsizing in an effort
to save money... given his total lack of experience doing anything that was not totally self serving... I strongly disagree.

Unfortunately, what you just said about Obama applies to half of Washington at least, H2OMAN. But I agree, Obama is sorely in short supply of any experience whatsoever, whether it be business, government, whatever. The real job ahead of us is to get Obama to actually come out for what he believes? Hes like a fighter that has never fought. He shows footwork, a few feints, dodges, bobbing and weaving, but can he or will he throw a punch, and at what, its anybody's guess!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 06:34 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Asherman wrote:

I'd like to suggest that it is far too soon to start knocking the Obama Presidency.



Given O boy's total lack of experience in balancing a budget, running a company, making payroll and downsizing in an effort
to save money... given his total lack of experience doing anything that was not totally self serving... I strongly disagree.

Unfortunately, what you just said about Obama applies to half of Washington at least, H2OMAN. But I agree, Obama is sorely in short supply of any experience whatsoever, whether it be business, government, whatever. The real job ahead of us is to get Obama to actually come out for what he believes? Hes like a fighter that has never fought. He shows footwork, a few feints, dodges, bobbing and weaving, but can he or will he throw a punch, and at what, its anybody's guess!


You'll find out, and I doubt you will like what you see, as your party is likely to be the recipient of said punch Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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