okie
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:19 pm
@Diest TKO,
Just wondering, how come Obama isn't bragging about belonging to the New Party on his resume, his list of accomplishments. I thought the guy was totally honest and open about all of the things he would be proud of?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:20 pm
@okie,
Only you nuts are looking for something other than the important stuff that most Americans are concerned about; the economy.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:28 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Just wondering, how come Obama isn't bragging about belonging to the New Party on his resume, his list of accomplishments. I thought the guy was totally honest and open about all of the things he would be proud of?


Perhaps with the economy needing so much attention, he doesn't have time to update the resume. I see you care, but Americans seem more interested in real issues and looking for real solutions.

If updating his resume would help the situation, I'm sure he'd do it. Wink

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Only you nuts are looking for something other than the important stuff that most Americans are concerned about; the economy.

So honest and open accurate resumes are not important to voters? Perhaps you are right, they probably aren't to the vast majority of Obama supporters, or lemings, but I do happen to care.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:38 pm
@okie,
Quote:
So I take it I have no objections to my post, this New Party stuff must have something to it, and now that the cover is being blown, you are even going to come out of the closet to trumpet what this so called New Party has to offer?

Please elaborate, and don't play games. Was Obama a member in your opinion? Be honest if you can bring yourself to do it. Maybe I am the one in the dark, everybody else has known this from day 1?


What I did was provide the sources rather than a screen shot. It lets people read the site for themselves without the filter from the "Conservative Culture" site.

What I did was provide a link to the Wiki page and the discussion page where there is debate going on as to the validity and lack of support for the assertions being made, so people could read both sides of it and make up their own minds without the "Conservative Culture" filter.


As to my personal opinion, after reading what was available on the New Party site and the Wiki site history, I'd say the assertions about the party are grossly exaggerated. I don't care if they list him as a member. It has about as much importance as the Palin's membership in the Alaskan Independence Party does for you.

I did send all the info to FactCheck.org with a request that they check it all out with their own research and offer an opinion as to the characterization of the party. If they report on it, I'll post the info here.
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:42 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

So you don't care about what a politician's past record is?

I care about the things in a politician's past record that I think are important. Obama having once been endorsed by a tiny lefty party is not one.

okie wrote:

And I keep asking, why should you care anyway, you don't live here?

For one, because who you people elect President has real and far-reaching consequences for us out here in the rest of the world. (I mean, c'mon Okie, you know this.)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:46 pm
@Butrflynet,
Thanks.

Agreed, the platform sounds pretty good, which doesn't mean anything in terms of actual results. Coincidentally, I have been reading a little history about the parties in Europe, pre-WWII, their platforms sounded pretty reasonable too. I think it is important here, however, to shine the light of honesty and also the light of history on movements like this. Lots of different bandwagons sound good on the surface, but count me as being a skeptic, I prefer to stick to proven principles, as enumerated in the constitution. Such organizations as the New Party, by definition, obviously are going to want to take us off in a new direction away from what America is, the things that have made us prosper for a very long time. And if his membership is true, if nothing else it demonstrates a blatant pattern of not being up front or honest to the American people about his political beliefs. That in itself is inexcusable and should disqualify him from any serious consideration by voters that care.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 19 Oct, 2008 08:19 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
"...I prefer to stick to proven principles, as enumerated in the constitution.
"

If that is so, why do you trust McCain when he approved the torture of our prisoners?
teenyboone
 
  1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah! What's the answer to that, Okie?
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 04:15 pm
@okie,
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-chicago-socialist,0,4048540.story
Quote:

Socialists: Obama no socialist
By Rex W. Huppke | Tribune staff reporter
October 20, 2008
These are hard times to be a socialist in America. And not just because there's a bourgeois-bloated Starbucks on every other corner, thumbing its capitalist nose at the proletariat.

No, it's tough these days because you've got politicians on the right, the same guys who just helped nationalize the banking system, derisively and inaccurately calling the presidential candidate on the left a socialist. That's enough to make Karl Marx harumph in his grave.

Local communists, rarely tapped as campaign pundits, say Sen. Barack Obama and his policies stand far afield from any form of socialism they know.

John Bachtell, the Illinois organizer for Communist Party USA, sees attempts by Sen. John McCain's campaign to label Obama a socialist as both offensive to socialists and a desperate ploy to tap into fears of voters who haven't forgotten their Cold War rhetoric.
"Red baiting is really the last refuge of scoundrels," Bachtell said. "It has nothing to do with the issues that are confronting the American people right now. It's just a big diversion."

Of course that's just one man's opinion. (And everyone knows you can't trust a communist.)

The "s-word" bubbled up from the McCain campaign after Obama said, in his chat with Joe the Plumber, that he thinks "when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Well, that certainly sounds like the words of a Red Menace. But is it socialist?

There are about as many definitions for socialism as comedian Jeff Foxworthy has for the term "redneck."

So, how do you know if you're a socailist?

Generally, it involves espousing government control over a country's basic industries, like transportation, communication and energy, while also allowing some government regulation of private industries.

"Obama is about as far from being a socialist as Joe The Plumber is from being a rocket scientist," said Darrell West, director of governance studies at the Brookings Institution. "I think it's hard for McCain to call Obama a socialist when George Bush is nationalizing banks."

And this from Bruce Carruthers, a sociology professor at Northwestern University: "Obama is like a center-liberal Democrat, and he is certainly not looking to overthrow capitalism. My goodness, he wouldn't have the support of someone like The Wizard of Omaha, Warren Buffet, if he truly was going to overthrow capitalism."

Bottom line: pure capitalism and socialism can be a difficult mix.

Which hits at the heart of the problem. Right now, with the economy in the tank, the idea of a little wealth sharing doesn't sound so bad to people whose 401k plans are worth less than the contents of their coin jars.

"The idea of closing that wealth gap, I think, is a concern for many, many Americans," said Teresa Albano, editor of the Chicago-based People's Weekly World, a communist newspaper. "I don't think people are going to respond negatively to the idea of spreading around the wealth."

Which is not to say that, by electing Obama, the country will gamely head down the path of socialism.

"The whole point of his policies don't really represent the political economy of the working class," said Robert Roman, who edits the newsletter of the roughly 250-member Chicago chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America. "Obama's going to be a person who represents all of us, he's going to be representing the interest of the capitalists as well as the working people. He's not really talking about transforming society beyond capitalism."

But don't worry, Sen. Obama. You're still likely to win the vote of avowed socialists.

"Having Obama as president would be greatly superior, from our point of view, than having McCain as president," Roman said.

And you can expect to see that quote in a McCain ad in 5, 4, 3, 2....
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 04:25 pm
@Butrflynet,
Love that "5, 4, 3, 2....." LOL
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 06:49 pm
@teenyboone,
The answer is we treated prisoners at Gitmo pretty good. If you wish to dumb down the defintion of torture, which has been the case, then that could be debated, and it has been over and over. I am not much interested in it. We have in fact treated prisoners better than almost any war on record. The torture issue is a totally non- issue.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 06:53 pm
@Butrflynet,
Might as well say it, if anyone favors Marxism, vote Obama. Now, it is debatable if Obama could instigate much of his favored agenda, given all the framework in place, but why even bother with electing a guy that doesn't believe in free enterprise? Why have a president that doesn't believe in the country and all the institutions that have made it prosper? He ends up being a fly in the ointment. The obvious conclusion, vote McCain. I am amazed at the people that are a- either totally blind to who Obama is, or b - they must be Marxistst themselves.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 07:01 pm
@okie,
okie, Give it up; you're just not contributing anything worth reading. Your statement, "...if anyone favors Marxism, vote Obama" is so full of BS, it's wasting cyberspace with garbage.

Define "Marxism," then tell us how that relates to Obama.
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
ci, in all seriousness, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that posting on a forum like this is useless. I might as well cut to the chase and call something for what it is. When you add it all up, Obama's friends and patterns for his political life, from Wright to the New Party, to Ayers, to Saul Alinsky, and all of the rest, I believe he is an extremist, and probably in fact a closet marxist. Heck, the whole "community organizing bit fits the whole thing. And the Obama's just recoil at actually working in private enterprise, after all. government service and community organizing is the only honorable thing to do, just ask them. I think they despise capitalism and the heritage of this country and its traditions, I don't think there is much doubt about that in my mind.

This isn't a big stretch or very bizarre nowadays. But such people will not be open and honest, you have to read between the lines, not what they say, because they lie about it, but when you study the man, thats what it is. As to what brand of Marxism, I don't know, perhaps he may believe some kind of hybrid European type socialism, but how are we to know. I am not willing to take that chance, because I don't trust the man.

Beyond that, we will never agree, the Obama worshipers fit one of two groups, they think like Obama and therefore are not honest either, or they are mindless dupes without a clue. As to which group you fit, I don't know, ci, thats for you only to know. You seem like an intelligent man at times, but other times no. Call me an idiot, I don't much care, as your opinion means nothing to me. I am more interested in the interests of the country and my family than I am your opinion.

As for other opinions here, there will be the lefties calling all kinds of names, I don't much care. Some would find it hard to believe anything as stark as what I am saying here, but look at history, and you have to admit some pretty unbelievable things have happened, and people can easily be fooled by slick politicians, it has happened over and over. It is incumbent upon us to figure out the mindset of political personalities and what their true agendas are, and I am just asserting my conclusion here in regard to Obama, the slickster, thats all.
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Define "Marxism," then tell us how that relates to Obama.


To summarize in one sentence, it is someone that worships at the altar of government. Goverment is the answer for everything, including the entire economy, to take care of all the hopeless peons out here that have no brains to take care of themselves.

In other words, anybody resembling Joe the Plumber is an absolute idiot and therefore worthy of no consideration, and is one to be despised. All you have to do is listen to Obama mocking Joe the Plumber, and it tells it all. I have no use for Mr. Obama. I would suggest he go get a real job, and learn the trade of plumbing. I doubt seriously he could cut the mustard, he would flunk.
parados
 
  2  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:37 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I am amazed at the people that are a- either totally blind to who Obama is, or b - they must be Marxistst themselves.
Quote:

As for other opinions here, there will be the lefties calling all kinds of names, I don't much care.

Nah, you don't care. You are too busy throwing out names like "Marxist", "commie", "socialist". Maybe you should grow up some day okie and realize we don't live in the 1950s. People that don't think like you are not unamerican. They could well be the majority of Americans. You could be the minority. You could be the one out of touch with America.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:39 pm
@okie,
You suffer from myopia. I'll let somebody else respond to your last post, because your observations on Obama is of an extreme type that I have no interest in prolonging with a discussion.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:39 pm
@parados,
Go get a real job, Parados.
parados
 
  2  
Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:40 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:



In other words, anybody resembling Joe the Plumber is an absolute idiot and therefore worthy of no consideration, and is one to be despised. All you have to do is listen to Obama mocking Joe the Plumber, and it tells it all.

When did Obama "mock" Joe the Plumber? Why do you make up that **** okie? You know you will be called on it. You know you can't provide any evidence to back up your ****. Face it. That's all you can do is throw **** at everything and everyone. Why do you do that okie? When are you going to start to actually act like a thinking human being?
 

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