sozobe
 
  2  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 04:22 pm
@sozobe,
To step back a bit:

I think Palin's a story. She's out of nowhere, she's unknown, and she's a target rich environment -- stuff keeps coming out. Digging is rewarded.

So the question becomes, what does Obama do about that?

I think hanging back and letting things self-destruct is about the best thing he can do. He cannot be the person who destroyed her. That will just rally people to her side. That goes not only for him but for his surrogates. It was pretty clear that Hillary Clinton was acting in accordance with the campaign when she neglected to tear into Palin when given a chance. She said no way, no how, no McCain-Palin and said some issue-based stuff -- but she was goaded into saying more and she didn't go there.

I think that's the right way to do it.

I remain frustrated with the media but am seeing signs that the pure chutzpah involved in the ongoing distortions from both McCain and Palin are exacting a price. That's good.

I think Obama might just keep doing his thing -- face-to-face campaigning, ground game, staying cool -- with occasional forays into "enough is enough"-type bemused exasperation, and occasional "McCain would rather lose his integrity than the election" broadsides from his campaign, until the first debate (September 26th). Then -- in a one-on-one appearance with MCCAIN (not Palin) -- show fire and aggression and poise that will come as a surprise to many viewers... and become a story, especially if he extracts a major gaffe or outburst from McCain.
fishin
 
  3  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 07:21 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

To step back a bit:

I think Palin's a story. She's out of nowhere, she's unknown, and she's a target rich environment -- stuff keeps coming out. Digging is rewarded.


I agree with this to an extent. Yes, she's new and an unknown. But as a result of that there are a LOT of completely BS accusations being made in the blogosphere and the press is investigating every single one of them. When ABC News has 60 people in Alaska investigating the various stories they have no one covering Biden. And when the trail of anonymous tips leads them to a big fat nothing in Alaska what do they put on the evening news? If anything they throw out a puff piece about how she attended some softball game 10 years ago and gave someone a soda.

Quote:
So the question becomes, what does Obama do about that?

I think hanging back and letting things self-destruct is about the best thing he can do. He cannot be the person who destroyed her. That will just rally people to her side. That goes not only for him but for his surrogates. It was pretty clear that Hillary Clinton was acting in accordance with the campaign when she neglected to tear into Palin when given a chance. She said no way, no how, no McCain-Palin and said some issue-based stuff -- but she was goaded into saying more and she didn't go there.

I think that's the right way to do it.


Well... IMO there are several groups that Obama's campaign needs to address. I agree that the "offical" reps of the party and campaign can't go out and say things to fuel the fire.

Where we disagree is on whether or not he can do anything about the people that aren't a part of the offical campaign that are stirring the pot - the bloggers. He has a choice here. But saying nothing is a wink and a nod to continue what they're doing. And like it or not what they are doing is keeping the press off of Obama's campaign and on to McCain's. Has there even been anything in the press in the last few days about what Biden is up to? Does anyone even know if he's still alive?

I got a chuckle out of a lead story on CNN's WWW site this evening:

"Sen. Barack Obama's spokesman on Saturday accused Sen. John McCain of "cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history."

Obama, speaking to a crowd Saturday in Manchester, New Hampshire, said, "John McCain wants to have a debate about national security; let's have that debate. I warned that going into Iraq would distract us from Afghanistan. John McCain cheerleaded for it. John McCain was wrong, and I was right."

"The McCain-[Sarah] Palin ticket, they don't want to debate the Obama-Biden ticket on issues because they are running on eight more years of what we've just seen. And they know it," the Democratic presidential nominee said. "As a consequence, what they're going to spend the next seven, eight weeks doing is trying to distract you."


Well, I don't see it. McCain and Palin don't have to spend the next 7 or 8 weeks trying to distract anyone. The left-wing bloggers are providing the distractions for them. And when people see the crap these bloggers are putting out there and then they read claims from Obama's campaign that McCain's campaign is the sleaziest ever... well, things just don't line up and 9 times out of 10 the reader's sympathy is going to go to the person who's being slandered.

Quote:
I remain frustrated with the media but am seeing signs that the pure chutzpah involved in the ongoing distortions from both McCain and Palin are exacting a price. That's good.


What price is that? Moving ahead in the polls isn't exactly a "price" in that sense, is it?

Quote:
I think Obama might just keep doing his thing -- face-to-face campaigning, ground game, staying cool -- with occasional forays into "enough is enough"-type bemused exasperation, and occasional "McCain would rather lose his integrity than the election" broadsides from his campaign, until the first debate (September 26th). Then -- in a one-on-one appearance with MCCAIN (not Palin) -- show fire and aggression and poise that will come as a surprise to many viewers... and become a story, especially if he extracts a major gaffe or outburst from McCain.


If that is Obama's game plan then, IMO, he might just as well pack up his campaign right now. That's a pretty high risk plan and there is just as much of a chance it wil backfire and Obama will come out looking desperate. At the current rate of change in the polls Obama could easily be down by 10 points by the 26th. That would pretty much make that 1st debate a do-or-die event for him. One slip-up from Obama or one good counter from McCain and this race is finished.

nimh
 
  2  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 07:32 pm
@fishin,
fishin wrote:
The latest story making the rounds is that Palin's son (the one that's in the Army) was a "major" drug dealer is Wasilla. The "source" is a supposed anonymous high school student. That of course, got started from the National Enquirer headline that ran the other day about he's supposedly addicting to Oxy and coke - a story that the National Enquirer is already backtracking on.


FWIW, that's the first I've ever heard of that -- and I've been obsessively following the news and, yes, a bunch of lefty blogs as well, this past week (procrastinating..). So I dunno how representative that is of what's going on.
nimh
 
  2  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 07:49 pm
@fishin,
fishin wrote:
Has there even been anything in the press in the last few days about what Biden is up to? Does anyone even know if he's still alive?

I was wondering that too, but then I read this:

Where's Joe Biden: Everywhere That Matters

That point seems to be borne out by this Google News list of mostly local news stories about Joe and Jill Biden's campaign stops in Iowa.
nicole415
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:04 pm
@nimh,
"The latest story making the rounds is that Palin's son (the one that's in the Army) was a "major" drug dealer is Wasilla. The "source" is a supposed anonymous high school student. That of course, got started from the National Enquirer headline that ran the other day about he's supposedly addicting to Oxy and coke - a story that the National Enquirer is already backtracking on."

Making the rounds, not hardly, not on the progressive blogs anyway, FDL, Kos, TPM, DU and even Mudflats. There is quite a bit of talk about how the Mat-Su Valley is riddled with meth labs but I haven't heard anything linked to the Palins.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  4  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:17 pm
@nimh,
nimh wrote:

fishin wrote:
Has there even been anything in the press in the last few days about what Biden is up to? Does anyone even know if he's still alive?

I was wondering that too, but then I read this:

Where's Joe Biden: Everywhere That Matters

That point seems to be borne out by this Google News list of mostly local news stories about Joe and Jill Biden's campaign stops in Iowa.


Well, I'll have to disagree with the bloggers comments. Biden was in Nashua, NH on Thursday. I live within 10 miles of Nashua and work there. I didn't even know he was there until just now when I did a Google search.

And I don't buy his comment that Biden is "just busy doing things that the national press doesn't bother to cover.". The national press has abandoned him. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/12/biden.palin/?iref=mpstoryview

He's got SIX reporters following him around on his plane. That's it! And according to that CNN article, he gave a 20+ minute response to a question on Iraq during one flight and yet, no story appeared in the press with that response (or any parts of it). The National press doesn't care about the Iraq war any more?
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:27 pm
@fishin,
fishin wrote:
And I don't buy his comment that Biden is "just busy doing things that the national press doesn't bother to cover.". The national press has abandoned him. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/12/biden.palin/?iref=mpstoryview

He's got SIX reporters following him around on his plane. That's it! And according to that CNN article, he gave a 20+ minute response to a question on Iraq during one flight and yet, no story appeared in the press with that response (or any parts of it). The National press doesn't care about the Iraq war any more?

Hmm - doesnt that example kind of just prove the point that it's a question of the national press not bothering to cover him anymore, though, rather than him having gone AWOL? Or am I misunderstanding you?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  3  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:28 pm
@fishin,
Too much press on Biden may be bad or embarrassing press for the Obama campaign. He is an accident waiting to happen, in terms of what he might say.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:34 pm
@okie,
Palin is already an accident, but the conservatives still haven't paid for the insurance.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  2  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:39 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Too much press on Biden may be bad or embarrassing press for the Obama campaign. He is an accident waiting to happen, in terms of what he might say.


"Too much press" can be bad for anyone but Biden is a perfectly capable person. He tends to pontificate on occassion but you can't legitimately claim that he doesn't research issues before talking about them. Even though I personally don't like him and seldom agree with him, I can't complain one bit about his knowledge and abilities.
okie
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:47 pm
@fishin,
I think he takes the wrong position many times. I don't fault him for being who he is, I don't think he is trying to fake who he is, but he talks alot, and there are many good quotes, one being he didn't think Obama was ready to be president, that being when he was running against him, but funny how he isn't saying that now. He is a loose cannon, and I don't think he would make a good vp. Actually I find him somewhat likable, but I just don't think he is vp or president material. He is cocky, and just pretty much a loudmouth, and that is not what I would vote for.
nicole415
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:50 pm
@okie,
Oh you mean like McPalin? What could Biden possibly say to trump the nonsense coming that campaign?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 09:54 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
He is cocky, and just pretty much a loudmouth, and that is not what I would vote for.

You could have fooled me...

(OK, that was a cheap shot. But an irresistable one Cool )
nicole415
 
  1  
Sat 13 Sep, 2008 10:07 pm
politico.com

Obama Wins the Day

SATURDAY, Sept. 13

10:00 p.m.: Final score: Obama wins the day
By Politico Staff

Sensing a new media cycle on the rise as Politico, The New York Times and Associated Press, among others, took note of the McCain campaign's increasing disregard for the facts in its latest round of attacks, Barack Obama doubled down on his anti-McCain attacks today, launching another salvo in his campaign to discredit his foe's change and reform bona fides.

The DNC released a 65-page document, "No Reformer," asserting McCain has close ties to some 170 lobbyists, and the campaign released a new TV spot and a Web site, McLobbyist.com, as part of an "integrated campaign" that will also feature lobbyist-themed events in some 20 states over the next three days.

At a rally in New Hampshire, Obama, who called on supporters to help those in Houston and elsewhere devastated by Hurricane Ike, kept the barrage going, telling the 7,000 assembled supporters that "they are going to spend the next seven to eight weeks doing is to try to distract you. They’re going to talk about pigs, they’re going to talk about lipstick, and they’re going to talk about Paris Hilton, and they’re going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record. And they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do. That’s what they do every election.”

McCain, Palin and Biden, who'd been scheduled to join Obama at the rally, all avoided public appearances, as public attention shifted to Ike. Obama cancelled an appearance on the season premiere of Saturday Night Live tonight.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 06:36 am
@nimh,
Very Happy

Fishin, Obama has said stuff about "Palin's family is off limits."

He just can't be expected to control the blogosphere, and I have to agree with nimh and nicole that I haven't seen that stuff myself. I don't doubt that it exists in the kookier corners, but again, kooky stuff exists, period. Is McCain making a firm stand against anti-Obama blog kookiness? (He's not even censuring surrogates who go ahead and question Obama's patriotism after McCain said that wasn't OK...)

Part of what I'm saying about polls is that I think McCain/ Palin WILL self-destruct -- that their numbers will stop going up soon, if they haven't already, just based on what they are doing.

Thanks for the Politico article, that's pretty much what I was saying, wasn't it! Nice to see that they agree.

Still could go several directions tho...
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 06:41 am
@fishin,
fishin wrote:
What price is that? Moving ahead in the polls isn't exactly a "price" in that sense, is it?


Coverage. The Associated Press is one example of amazing fawningness (Fournier especially) towards McCain, and they're actually saying that he's lying now. That's new, and influences polls... if the coverage (by an organization as widely read as the AP) is critical (in a new way), that in turn is likely to have an effect on the polls. IMO.
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:27 am
@sozobe,
We were talking about whether McCain/ Palin are still going up in the polls or what... I hadn't checked Gallup in a while. Going down, not up:

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080913DailyUpdateGraph1_iiiii.gif

Pollster still has the trendlines going up though:

http://www.pollster.com/08USPresGEMvO600.png

The last polls they have concluded September 11th. (2)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:35 am
@fishin,
SNL has now chimed in on the "where's Biden?" shtick.

~~~

I watched the Palin and Biden features on CNN last night. Both interesting. A fair bit of debunking rumours about both of them. A bit too delicate, for my taste, about both of them. Then again, I'm not hoping they'll be on my show anytime soon.
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:37 am
@sozobe,
And here's First Read on the same subject: "Wheels come off Straight Talk Express?"

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/13/1393986.aspx

Excerpt:

Quote:
For a candidate who prides himself in "straight talk" -- and whose political image in part is based on that truth-telling reputation -- Saturday proved to be a brutal day for John McCain and his campaign.

[...various examples of various news organizations calling out McCain on various distortions...]

To top it off, McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said this to the Politico about the increased media scrutiny of the campaign's factual claims: "We’re running a campaign to win. And we’re not too concerned about what the media filter tries to say about it.”

Not surprisingly, the Obama camp has pounced on all this, issuing a memo to reporters entitled "Unraveling the myth of the Straight Talk Express." The memo argues, "Since naming Governor Palin as their vice presidential nominee, the McCain campaign has distorted, distracted, and outright lied to the American people about her record in a desperate attempt to hide the fact that a McCain/Palin Administration would be nothing more than a continuation of the failed Bush policies of the last eight years."

And it concludes, "While the media is slowly starting to call the McCain campaign on their dishonest tactics, McCain’s staff boasts that they don’t care. As a McCain spokesman told the Politico, 'We’re running a campaign to win. And we’re not too concerned about what the media filter tries to say about it.'"


(More quotes and cites in full article.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:39 am
@ehBeth,
Tell me more about SNL -- what happened with Tina Fey as Palin?

I think Amy Poehler did Hillary a world of good...

edit: Found this

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,422265,00.html
 

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