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Getting a driver's license to get harder

 
 
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:44 am
Getting a driver's license to get harder

By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY

The cost of obtaining a driver's license could double, and renewing a license by mail would end by 2008, according to state officials responsible for enforcing a federal law aimed at thwarting terrorists and discouraging illegal immigration.


The Real ID Act, approved by Congress in May and scheduled to take effect in May 2008, requires people seeking a license to prove that they are in the USA legally.

State officials from California to Maine fear that they don't have the technology, staff or money to meet the new law's requirements.

"Many are reacting negatively to it," Matt Sundeen of the National Conference of State Legislatures says of state lawmakers. "Real ID ... will have significant fiscal implications for the states."

The USA has about 240 million licensed drivers, and roughly 12 million have state-issued identification cards, says Jarret Egan, a spokesman for the Department of
Homeland Security.

Real ID sets federal rules for obtaining and renewing licenses and state identification cards. Residents of states that don't comply with the law will not be able to use their licenses for official federal purposes such as boarding a plane or entering a federal courthouse.

"It's disappointing to hear from some (states) that it's inconvenient or too difficult to implement," says Jeff Lungren, spokesman for the
House Judiciary Committee, whose chairman, Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner (news, bio, voting record), R-Wis., sponsored the law.

"The 9/11 hijackers used multiple driver's licenses and birth certificates ... to live openly in the United States while they planned their deadly attacks. Real ID is an effort to prevent that from ever occurring again. We gave (states) three years. This is a priority, and it needs to be treated as such," he says.

After Sept. 11, many states began giving greater scrutiny to applicants for licenses and identification cards.

Only 10 states don't require proof that an applicant is legally in the USA in order to drive, Sundeen says. States typically require new drivers to produce proof of age and one or two other forms of ID, usually including a photo.

Under Real ID, applicants would have to show proof of a
Social Security number or why they don't have one, plus documents bearing their name, address and birth date.

The law's requirements for verifying such documents and features to make counterfeiting licenses more difficult will force states to make changes.

"Even though some states believe that they already comply with the Real ID act, in actuality none of them do," says Jonathan Frenkel, a director in the law enforcement division of the Department of Homeland Security.

State officials are asking, for example, how they will verify records of people whose birthplaces no longer exist, like East Germany; how states, required to share information through a database, can prevent identity theft; and how much the new rules will cost.

"What do you do with people on the Gulf Coast, where so many records were lost?" asks Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap, who says 85% of his state's vital records are scattered among libraries, museums and town offices.

"We have no argument with the intent of Real ID. Our concern is what (it) is going to force us to do. ... Is it really going to do what it's intended to do, improving national security and preventing identity theft?"

Congress has appropriated $40 million to the states to comply with the act.

Kentucky and New Hampshire have received $3 million each for pilot projects. State officials have estimated that annual costs could reach tens of millions of dollars.

Among states' concerns:

• The workforce at California motor vehicle offices would increase by 500 employees, or roughly 10%, says State Sen. Michael Machado, a Democrat representing the Central Valley. The $26 fee to renew a license could more than double, and the state's 23 million drivers who renew by mail or the Internet no longer will be able to do so, he says.

• In Maine, where driver's license fees have been used to fix bridges and build roads, "we'd go from being a revenue generator to a drain on our state highway fund," Dunlap says.

• New Jersey began upgrading procedures in 2003, including verifying Social Security numbers with the
Social Security Administration.

"In a lot of respects, we're well placed," says David Weinstein, spokesman for the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission. "But like most of the other states, we're concerned we're not going to get direction in enough time to meet the (effective) date."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 947 • Replies: 15
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:48 am
This is not something with which i have a problem. There are many little schemes of the idiots on Pennsylvania Avenue which the think to justify by an appeal to protecting us from terrorism which i consider to be completely unacceptable, based upon self-serving canards.

This is not an example of that deplorable tendancy of the current administration, however. No one is constitutionally guaranteed the right to privately owned and operated high-speed transport, and i don't therefore see strictures on the licensing of those who drive to be an infringement on anyone's civil rights. I cannot accept anyone's contention that this would be an invasion of anyone's privacy, should anyone be so naive or disingenuous as to make such an argument.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:53 am
Michigan already complies, they require three forms of ID, and they won't accept copies of your birth certificate. What a pain in the ass. I took in my CA DL, my expired passport, and my marriage license.

It's a joke.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:55 am
Profiling would help.

If you look like Juan Valdez but your forged birth certificate says "John Voersma", it might be a tip off.
0 Replies
 
Winthorpe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 03:06 pm
It should be more difficult to obtain a driver's license both in proving who you are and the minimum competency in driving. There are too many idiotic drivers on the road since the DMV drivign test is a joke.
0 Replies
 
Cezanne Dahlia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 12:53 pm
Hello *waves* I am new here and this is my first post.

After perusing this board for two full days now and wanting to respond to many topics being discussed I chose this one to start with because of something that recently happened with my daughter.

My daughter is 22-years old and had a learner's permit from the state of Oklahoma. She had yet to obtain a driver's license. She moved to Texas a year ago and two weeks ago went to get her Texas state driver's license fully prepared to take both the written and the driving test.

Well, because Oklahoma makes their learner's permits and state IDs look identical to their driver's licenses the woman at DPS here in Texas assumed that my daughter had a valid driver's license in Oklahoma and proceeded to immediately issue my daughter a Texas state driver's license without the written or driving test. All my daughter had to do was show the woman her social security card and ten minutes later my daughter has a driver's license.

Although my daughter is greatly relieved to not having had to take the tests this whole procedure bothered me. There was little to no proof needed for my daughter to obtain a driver's license. She was not asked for any other kind of photo ID other than the learner's permit. A social security card can be faked.

Feeling that this was wrong, my daughter and I returned the next day to make sure that DPS knew this was an error on their part and for my daughter to go through the necessary tests to properly obtain a driver's license. Their response? They laughed, admitted they "goofed" and told my daughter to enjoy her license! They couldn't go back and "undo" the license they gave her. Nice, eh? So much for Homeland Security!

You would think that after 9/11 that states issuing personal identification and driver's licenses would be just alittle more vigilent in making sure the person is who they say they are, or at least make sure that the person they issue driver's licenses to can actually drive!

So, basically due to the stupidity of both Oklahoma and Texas my daughter is driving legally having only had to show up, wait in line, pay $11 and show a social security card. Shocked
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:00 pm
I once applied for a driver's license in a small town in northern New Mexico. The little woman (she was, literally small--no contempt expressed there) behind the counter says: "Oh, jew forgot to mark dee box wheech says jew surrender jore outta state license."

"Well, actually, it would be more convenient to me to keep it."

"Hoh-kay, no problem . . . say, jew wanna take dee test?"

"Whatever . . . is there someone here beside you?"

"Well, Ernesto is 'sposed to come back from lunch soon . . . here, i already made it out for jew, if he don't show up soon, jew can just go . . . "
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:02 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Profiling would help.

If you look like Juan Valdez but your forged birth certificate says "John Voersma", it might be a tip off.


unless your mother was named Maria Valdez and married a John Voersma....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:04 pm
Re: Getting a driver's license to get harder
bobsmythhawk wrote:
State officials are asking, for example, how they will verify records of people whose birthplaces no longer exist, like East Germany;


That's intersting - how, do these sate officials think, do we here in Germany know that?

(Actually it's nonsense: EVERY birthplace here, from any time, still "exists". "Non-existing" places are written as "Born in ABC-village, now part of DEF-town".)

Here, in Germany (and the EU) you are allowed to drive with your homecountry driving license for one year. Then you must get a national license ... with all documents to prove that you are the one you say you are.

Works fine since some decades.
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Cezanne Dahlia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:12 pm
Quote:
Here, in Germany (and the EU) you are allowed to drive with your homecountry driving license for one year. Then you must get a national license ... with all documents to prove that you are the one you say you are.


Having been a military family that was stationed in Germany for four years we were required, upon arrival to Germany, to immediately study the road signs, take the driving test and obtain a German driver's license. I don't know if this applies to the ordinary citizen from the US or other countries but we, as military had to obtain one right away.

Sidenote: The tests to obtain that German license were by far the most difficult one I've ever taken. In fact, I failed it twice before finally passing.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:15 pm
The German drivers I know are some of the best I've ever ridden with. The fact that they scared the crap out of me is beside the point. Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:27 pm
Cezanne Dahlia wrote:

Having been a military family that was stationed in Germany for four years we were required, upon arrival to Germany, to immediately study the road signs, take the driving test and obtain a German driver's license. I don't know if this applies to the ordinary citizen from the US or other countries but we, as military had to obtain one right away.


Not sure about it - but I've noticed that most US-cars here were driven not by ... very ecperienced drivers with a great knowledge of traffic rules.
(Military personal and families now have "normal" German number plates - it's not soooo easy to recognise that in advance nowadays.)

Cezanne Dahlia wrote:

Sidenote: The tests to obtain that German license were by far the most difficult one I've ever taken.


Well, if that really is so, a lot of German drivers must have got their license via some competition in free advert magazine.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:31 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
(Military personal and families now have "normal" German number plates - it's not soooo easy to recognise that in advance nowadays.)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/1/16/HK-Nummernschild.jpg/300px-HK-Nummernschild.jpg

And of course: welcome to A2K, Cezanne Dahlia!
0 Replies
 
Cezanne Dahlia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:41 pm
Thanks for the welcome!

Quote:
Well, if that really is so, a lot of German drivers must have got their license via some competition in free advert magazine.


Well, this was 1992-1996 so I don't know if the requirements have changed since then.

It would have been nice to have those not-so-noticable plates when we were there! Being honked at, lights flashing at us on the autobahn just because we were military Americans was not so pleasant. And before you say anything - yes, we adhered to normal driving behavior and were going just as fast as you guys do. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 01:57 pm
Cezanne Dahlia wrote:
It would have been nice to have those not-so-noticable plates when we were there!


You/they have to do changes at their cars now (since 2002, when getting such number plates): no tinted windscreens etc - everything must be in accordance to German law :wink:
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Mar, 2006 02:16 pm
http://extreme-hawaii.com/pidgin/funkine/driver/
0 Replies
 
 

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