Is being gay a choice?

Indeed, MA, this is one of the potential functions of A2K, to be able to test our views against those of others.
In addition to PQ's error of equating a cheating wife with a non-cheating gay's sex life, she makes the questionable assumption that it would be virtuous of gays to stay in the closet, despite the damage that would to the quality of their lives.
One of my oldest friends has lived in the closet for over 70 years. He was raised in a very conventional mid-western culture, and to this day he dreads the possibility of being discovered (I think many people suspect him of being gay, even though he appears very masculine). My wife and I have been his CLOSE friends for 45 years and grieve over the waste of the dear man's life. His life in the closet has done him irreparable harm. I don't find that virtuous, and we tell him so. Before he dies we wish for him to come out and be himself publically, and get laid (if he still can)--as he would like it. But, of course, he has the right to live in fear. Gasp!

BTW, NickFun is right on today.

JLN,

How are you doing? Good I hope.

It's not that I have a complete problem with what Nick and Lightwizard are saying. The problem I am having is, until the Pentacle Queen is given a chance to elaborate on her statements it just might be possible Nick and LW are taking it a bit further than Pentacle Queen intended. I don't know if this is the case or not. I'd like to hear her complete thoughts on this. That really wasn't all that much to go on.

PQ--

Do you really think gays should live a life of pretending to be something they aren't--and give up the right to live a happy fulfilled life?

For whom or what should they do this?

Would you do it?

I think you may be thinking of gay people in abstract terms.

I don't think you could suggest such a thing if YOU or someone you loved was gay. Imagine what that type of life would be like.

She would have to come back on the forum and explain what is plain to me. If you can't express yourself clearly and have inserted your foot in your mouth, perhaps it is better not to post your thoughts. I guess one has to walk in the other person's shoes to understand? The statement makes it sound like gays are not just coming out of closet but are sexual offenders if they have sex with a consenting adult (confusing, once again, religious teachings with the law). That there is no adultery if one sleeps with the milkman in the case of gays who are in a long term relationship as they are not legally attached, it really has nothing to do with sleeping with the milkman. Well, unless you're single and decide to romance the milkman for a long term relationship. People might think of murdering someone who has really harmed them but don't act on it. I think what we have here is a deep misunderstanding of the seriousness of different transgressions and in making such pronouncements are basically saying that they are pure and have never sinned. Here's some stones.

And who in the hell still has a milkman?

I agree Lightwizard. The Mailman would have been more appropriate. A gay person can have an extramarital affair as well as a straight person. I hate when people throw moral judgements almost saying "live my way or don't live at all". There is nothing more reprehensible. Not that she is reprehensible, mind you. I just don't like that attitude.

LW- I am a little confused by your statement. Are you saying that it is ok for gays in a long term, committed relationship, to have sexual encounters with other people because the two of them are not legally married, so therefore there is no adultery?

Even if there is no legal committment, what about the committment that two gay people have to each other? On the other hand, are you speaking of open relationships?

That's where the comparison was flawed. She was comparing the "sin" of homosexuality with the "sin" of adultery. Neither is now against the law in the U.S. There is a commandment regarding adultery, no commandment regarding homosexuality. Adultery in religion apparantly trumps homosexuality since that particular document is so treasured by Christians.

I was alluding to open relationships which is also nobody's business but those involved. Try watching the new HBO series "Big Love" which deals with bigamy. The point is that the religious right has tried to elevate homosexuality to nearly the level of murder.

Right, Phoenix. My gay cousin has enjoyed a 40 year marriage (all his considerable property is held jointly with his partner). It's clear to me that if he were to learn that his spouse was cheating, he would be devestated. Love and faithfulness are love and faithfulness; it's as simple as that.

Cheating is a stealthy activity in most cases, don't ya think? It's when it's revealed that the bomb drops. "Brokeback Mountain" covers that territory very strongly with Ennis' divorce. They found other reasons to seperate, most of them manifested by Ennis lack of attention to his marriage. That his wife had stumbled onto the truth was a shock.and one of the pivotal scenes in the film because Ennis finds out after the divorce.

(But I'm giving away too much of the move -- now out on DVD on April 4th!)



Brokeback Mountain on DVD April 4
Source: Universal Studios Home Entertainment March 20, 2006


Universal Studios Home Entertainment has announced that Brokeback Mountain, starring Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal, Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway, will be available on DVD April 4. The film was directed by Ang Lee (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), who earned an Academy Award.

"As one of the most talked-about movies of the year, 'Brokeback Mountain' has not only established a new benchmark in filmmaking but it has also permeated the public consciousness to an unprecedented level," commented Craig Kornblau, President, Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "We are confident that this DVD will profoundly resonate among consumers and that it will quickly become an integral part of every DVD collection."

Winner of three Academy Awards, including Best Director (Lee), Best Adapted Screenplay (Larry McMurtry & Diana Ossana) and Best Original Score (Gustavo Santaolalla), Brokeback Mountain tells the story of Ennis Del Mar (Ledger) and Jack Twist (Gyllenhaal), two young men dispatched to work as sheepherders up on the majestic Brokeback Mountain in the summer of 1963. During their experience, Ennis and Jack are drawn into an unexpected life-long relationship, filled with love and loss.

The DVD is priced at $29.98 SRP.

(Apparantly a block on the image of the DVD cover).

Not my mailman!

I was a mailman for four years in the late 50s. Only one near liason. Milkmen have more fun.

My nephew's Dad was a mailman his entire life. We haven't had milkmen for nearly fifty years in any part of Southern California I lived. I think the pool boys and gardeners might have the corner on the liasons. Especially if you've been following "Desperate Housewives."

Your nephew's Dad? Wouldn't that be your brother? We had a milkman when I was a kid some 35 years ago. When the milk delivery bueiness went sour he became the ice cream man. Leo was his name.

I can remember--like it were yesterday--when the iceman used to enter my parent's kitchen with a block of ice, held by larger pincers, on a leather pad on his shoulder, and gently placing it inside our iceBOX. Time's an illusion. Things occurring just months ago seem much farther away.

My brother-in-law, NickFun.

Yes, JL, the iceman cometh but I hope he did it in private.

F*** you. lightwizard.
Dont be so touchy just because your gay.
and for your info, brokeback mountain is prob one of my fav films of all time. and you dont have to be gay to enjoy it, you just have to know what its like to love another that you 'cant' be with.

of course i was pointing out the obvious. thats what i intended to do. in fact brokeback mountains a perfect example of what i said. they couldnt help loving each other, but it was their choice to act upon it.

i didnt say that you should live in the closet, but i said its your choice to comeout of the closet or not. isnt that obvious?

Thanks for clarifying -- it was certainly not obvious what you were trying to state so the epithet was totally unnecessary. You should have known that dropping such statements onto a forum with no explanation is going to rile up not just me but others. It's a typical barb by some right wing religious nut. Better read back and see how many people did not understand your post. Next time think before you post.