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Who is Jesus?

 
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 08:08 pm
RR:

You are funny. Now that you have established that Moses wrote his death scene and events after his death why did he not complete the rest of the bible? Who needs Mark, Matthew, Luke and John to write the Gospels when there is a dead writing prophet?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:55 pm
Setanta wrote:
The member "real life," a fundamentalist propagandist of the first water, alleges that the "gospel" of Mark dates to 50 CE. This is, of course, a disingenuous response to criticisms about the canonical texts, as it ignores the criticism that the texts were copied, "corrected" and "edited" repeatedly in the centuries which followed, until the modern canon was adoped at Nicea in 325 CE. The member "real life" acknowledges himself that texts were lost, and that they were copied. He contradicts himself. He makes a critical and disparaging assertion about modern scholarship on these texts, but provides no source for his criticism--which is typical of his style.


Hi Setanta,

Not sure that I asserted that texts were 'lost' in the sense that you may be understanding it.

What exactly do you mean by 'texts were lost'? Do you mean that individual copies were lost? Yes of course thousands of copies of any given Biblical text may have existed at any given point in history and some of those copies may have been lost. What effect has that on the accuracy of the text that we see today? Not a lot, it would seem.

------------------------------------------

Now you may also misunderstand my position of the 'editing' attempted by historical figures to which you refer.

That they edited their copies is not under dispute by me.

That they produced copies of their edited version is also a given.

That only copies of the edited version thereafter survived and became 'the' only version of the Biblical texts used by the church catholic is not supportable.



Setanta wrote:
So, although the "gospel" may date to as early as 50 CE, "real life" willfully ignores that no physical copy from that date exitsts,


Actually there is, and I am not convinced that you are unaware of it.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 12:30 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:

RedRed wrote:
These ancients knew the stars so well they could make a modern day astronomer blush...


Gimme a break. They "knew" shyt. But I guess when you have been brainwashed as much as you have...stupid statements like that one come easy.



The latest theory that physicists have is that our galaxy came from a black hole...

It is a rather radical idea in relation to many of the other theories that have been floating around.

Yet the majority of scientists are now convinced that there is a black hole in the center of our Milky Way and all other galaxies...

Yet this idea is not new.

It is 6000 years old...
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Comment:

"Darkness was upon the face of the deep?" That is a black hole!

"And God said let there be light..." That is a pulsar and the creation of suns... Where else would Einstein have gotten his theories?

Now were they just guessing 6000 years ago? How did the ancients know what we are only today realizing?

Considering that a black hole cannot be seen... what is your explanation for 6000 years of this truth in the Bible? A really good guess? Not this time Frank... This time Frank, it is you who are guessing... badly I might add...

http://www.crystalinks.com/bharticles.html

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/black_hole_011128.html
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 01:08 pm
talk72000 wrote:
RR:

You are funny. Now that you have established that Moses wrote his death scene and events after his death why did he not complete the rest of the bible? Who needs Mark, Matthew, Luke and John to write the Gospels when there is a dead writing prophet?


I am going to write up a big reply to this question I have been waiting the last few days to let the reply solidify in my mind...

Anyone ever heard of the four branches spoken of in the OT?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 04:16 pm
talk72000 wrote:
RR:

You are funny. Now that you have established that Moses wrote his death scene and events after his death why did he not complete the rest of the bible? Who needs Mark, Matthew, Luke and John to write the Gospels when there is a dead writing prophet?



Why did the apostles write the Gospels if Jesus had already been prophesied by Moses and the other prophets? [The words in hard brackets have been added into the King James text below for clarification] I have made certain words bold to draw your attention to them.

Luke 1:1-4:
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration [diegesis, narration] of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

It seemed good to me [Luke] also, having had perfect [akribos, accurate] understanding of all things from the very first [anothen, from above], to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

That thou mightest know the certainty of those things [things relating to Jesus Christ's earthly life and ministry], wherein thou hast been instructed.

Jeremiah 23:5:
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch [tsemach], and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jeremiah 33:15:
In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch [tsemach] of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

Comment:
The book of Matthew tells the Jesus story from the perspective of Jesus as the Shepherd King. In order for Jesus to be the Messiah, he would have to be a descendant of David. Only in Matthew do we find the phrase "Kingdom of Heaven," and there it is used thirty-two times. There are ten parables unique to Matthew, all of which relate to a king. The phrase "son of David" occurs more in Matthew than in any other Gospel. Thus, in the Gospel of Matthew, the emphasis is on Jesus Christ as the king, the Messiah who fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies.

Zechariah 3:8:
Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH [tsemach].

Comment:
Mark emphasizes Jesus as the servant... there is no geneology and here Jesus is depicted as washing the feet of the disciples and working miracles. As the promised Branch, a major aspect of Jesus Christ's ministry would be the role of a servant. The Gospel which clearly emphasizes Jesus Christ as the servant is Mark. Mark records no genealogy, as a servant does not gain his position by descent. Mark begins with Jesus Christ's ministry. The word translated "lord" or "sir" (kurios) is used seventy-three times of Jesus Christ in the other three Gospels, but only three times in Mark, for a servant is not called a lord. Mark puts great stress on Jesus' actions in the service of God to his fellowman. Thus the Gospel of Mark emphasizes Jesus Christ as a
servant willing to accept responsibility in serving and helping others.

Zechariah 6:12:
And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH [tsemach]; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord.

Comment:
Another major characteristic of the promised Branch is his humanity; in other words, the Branch would be a man. The Gospel which clearly emphasizes Jesus Christ as a man is the Gospel of Luke. In Luke 3:23-38 is a genealogy tracing Jesus' legal ancestry (through Joseph who had adopted him) back to Adam, the first man. There are eleven parables peculiar to Luke which emphasize the human aspect of his walk. He is depicted as a friend of publicans and sinners. The entire Gospel emphasizes his relationship with the common man. Thus, in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus Christ is shown to be a perfect man, full of human tenderness and compassion.

Isaiah 4:2:
In that day shall the branch [tsemach] of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

Comment:
Jesus Christ was the tsemach, the offspring, of the Lord. He came as God's Son. The Gospel which plainly emphasizes Jesus Christ as the Son of God is the Gospel of John. Several verses in John will demonstrate this
emphasis.

John 1:14,18,34:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 3:16:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Comment:
In summary, God had promised a coming Branch, tsemach, who would have four major characteristics. He would be (1) a king, (2) a servant, (3) a man, and (4) the Son of God. While every Gospel encompasses all of these characteristics of Jesus Christ, each Gospel specifically emphasizes one of them. This is a major reason four Gospels were necessary to fully reveal the greatness of Jesus Christ's earthly life and ministry. No one Gospel could comprehensively state Jesus Christ's multifaceted ministry with the full illumination it deserves. By having four Gospels written, God set forth Jesus Christ's life from every essential viewpoint for our full appreciation and knowledge.

Comment:
Most of this in this reply is "borrowed" from research I was taught years ago...

I thought it might shed some light.
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