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Only illegal abortions will become the norm

 
 
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 06:03 pm
People have short memories. When illegal abortions were prevalent in this country, more young girls harmed or killed themselves by aborting with a wire hanger. Who are these people trying to save?


US state tightens abortion laws
A US state has signed into law a bill banning most abortions, in a move aimed to force the US Supreme Court to reconsider its key ruling on the issue.
The South Dakota law - approved by the governor on Monday - makes it a crime for doctors to perform terminations.

Exceptions will be made if a woman's life is at risk, but not in cases of rape or incest.

Many believe new appointments to the Supreme Court may have tipped the balance in favour of anti-abortionists.


Unborn children are the most vulnerable and most helpless persons in our society
South Dakota Gov Mike Rounds



Both Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito are considered conservatives.

Justice Alito is thought to be more likely to rule against abortion than his predecessor, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

The supporters of the South Dakota law say they want to trigger a battle over the 1973 Roe-versus-Wade ruling, in which the US Supreme Court established that governments lacked the power to prohibit abortions.

'Vulnerable and helpless'

About 800 abortions are performed each year in South Dakota.

Under the law signed by South Dakota Governor Mike Rounds, doctors could get up to five years in prison and a $5,000 (£2,800) fine for performing an illegal abortion.

Gov Rounds said: "In the history of the world, the true test of a civilisation is how well people treat the most vulnerable and most helpless in their society.

"The sponsors and supporters of this bill believe that abortion is wrong because unborn children are the most vulnerable and most helpless persons in our society. I agree with them," he said in a written statement.

Planned Parenthood, which performs abortions in the state, has pledged to challenge the measure in court.

Kate Looby, state director for the group, said the governor "cares more about politics than about the reproductive freedom of women in South Dakota".

"Our doors remain open. We will not be closing, hopefully never," she said.

Troy Newman, head of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue in Kansas said: "[The law] reflects the momentum the pro-life movement has today.

"It is a grassroots movement that is propelling the legislatures, the governor, the president, and ultimately the Supreme Court to nullify the permissive abortion laws."


The abortion ban would take effect on 1 July but it is likely that a federal judge would suspend it during any legal challenge.

The law would therefore not take effect unless South Dakota state gets the case to the US Supreme Court and wins.

Gov Rounds said abortion opponents have already started offering money to help the state pay legal bills for the anticipated court challenge.

Lawmakers also said an anonymous donor has pledged $1m (£572,000) to defend the ban, and a special account has been set up to accept donations for legal fees.

The statement issued by Gov Rounds also noted the bill was written to ensure existing restrictions on abortion would be enforced during a legal battle.

State proposals to ban abortion are before legislatures in Mississippi, Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4780522.stm

Published: 2006/03/06 22:09:49 GMT
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 06:07 pm
From ABC News:

Few Extreme Cases in Abortions

Data on why women say they had an abortion are scarce, but a 1988 study cited by the Alan Guttmacher Institute found that few were done for health reasons or because the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest. Most women cited financial concerns or problems with their relationships, or said they weren't ready to have a child.

Late-term and partial-birth abortions, which generate the greatest opposition, account for a tiny percentage of all abortions. Fewer than 2 percent of abortions are done after the fifth month, according to a 1999 report by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; and fewer than two-tenths of 1 percent are partial-birth abortions, according to a 2000 report by the Guttmacher Institute.

At 57 percent, support for legal abortion in all or most cases is about what it's been on average in polls that have asked it this way since 1995. Most Americans eschew the extreme positions: 23 percent want abortion legal in all cases, and 17 percent want it illegal in all cases. About a third say it should be mostly legal; a quarter, mostly illegal.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 06:41 pm
C.I.

The standard answer I get from so-called Christians is that those who die attempting an abortion deserve it (even if it is the product of incest or rape)

In fact, some go so far as to support the death penalty for those who perform or assist abortions....I guess they translate from the original hebrew

"Thou shalt mostly not kill overly much (unless you wanna)"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 07:37 pm
Yeah, and the republiicans is the party of less government intrusion into our personal lives.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 08:50 pm
Quote:
Gov Rounds said: "In the history of the world, the true test of a civilisation is how well people treat the most vulnerable and most helpless in their society.

"The sponsors and supporters of this bill believe that abortion is wrong because unborn children are the most vulnerable and most helpless persons in our society. I agree with them," he said in a written statement.

Apparently Gov Rounds feels that pregnant girls and women who are vulnerable due to their situation in life and helpless in the face of politicians who claim the moral right to intervene in her most personal decisions, can be treated like non-persons.

If she is unlucky enough to accidentally get pregnant, whether it is due to birth control failure, rape, incest, drugs, mental or physical coercion, or just poor judgment, her body can be commandeered by a Governor who values her only as a baby factory. Never mind the cost to the woman whose body may be harmed without her consent or compensation, or to the unwanted child who must be fed, clothed, educated, cared for, often at public expense, to become yet another over-consumer in an overpopulated world.

The Governor is wrong. Embryos and fetuses are not legally, ethically, or biologically "children" nor are they "persons in our society" until they are born. Until they develop a minimally functioning brain (around 24 weeks), they cannot think or feel and should be considered the property of the woman who gestates them, to do with as she will. The Constitution does NOT give unborn embryos/fetuses any rights whatsoever, and certainly not any that trump the right of a living, breathing woman to pursue happiness in any way that she chooses.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:41 pm
Terry, I blame fundamentalist christians for most of our problems; their brains are calcified after they have been brain-washed on what they feel the bible says, and ignore the science or invidivual rights of the girl/woman to control their own bodies as they see fit. All one needs to do is look at all the contradictions and hypocrisy of those that try to enforce their religious' belief system on the rest of society. Some of them believe it's okay to kill an abortion doctor, but not the fetus.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 10:58 pm
Yeah, what's with that? I used have a guy doing contract work for me who talked about killing abortion doctors. Murder to stop murder?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 11:20 pm
I've actually had regular A2K members tell me they support the death penalty for abortion mothers and doctors.

How can you be pro-life and pro-death penalty?

Fancy footwork that.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 02:09 am
Here is the text of the unconstitutional statute enacted by the SD legislature and signed into law by the SD governor:

Quote:
South Dakota Women’s Health and Human Life Protection Act (HB 1215)
Signed into Law by South Dakota Gov. Mike Rounds
March 6, 2006


AN ACT

ENTITLED, An Act to establish certain legislative findings, to reinstate the prohibition against certain acts causing the termination of an unborn human life, to prescribe a penalty therefor, and to provide for the implementation of such provisions under certain circumstances.



BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF SOUTH DAKOTA:

Section 1. The Legislature accepts and concurs with the conclusion of the South Dakota Task Force to Study Abortion, based upon written materials, scientific studies, and testimony of witnesses presented to the task force, that life begins at the time of conception, a conclusion confirmed by scientific advances since the 1973 decision of Roe v. Wade, including the fact that each human being is totally unique immediately at fertilization. Moreover, the Legislature finds, based upon the conclusions of the South Dakota Task Force to Study Abortion, and in recognition of the technological advances and medical experience and body of knowledge about abortions produced and made available since the 1973 decision of Roe v. Wade, that to fully protect the rights, interests, and health of the pregnant mother, the rights, interest, and life of her unborn child, and the mother's fundamental natural intrinsic right to a relationship with her child, abortions in South Dakota should be prohibited. Moreover, the Legislature finds that the guarantee of due process of law under the Constitution of South Dakota applies equally to born and unborn human beings, and that under the Constitution of South Dakota, a pregnant mother and her unborn child, each possess a natural and inalienable right to life.


Section 2. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows:

No person may knowingly administer to, prescribe for, or procure for, or sell to any pregnant woman any medicine, drug, or other substance with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being. No person may knowingly use or employ any instrument or procedure upon a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being.

Any violation of this section is a Class 5 felony.


Section 3. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows:

Nothing in section 2 of this Act may be construed to prohibit the sale, use, prescription, or administration of a contraceptive measure, drug or chemical, if it is administered prior to the time when a pregnancy could be determined through conventional medical testing and if the contraceptive measure is sold, used, prescribed, or administered in accordance with manufacturer instructions.


Section 4. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows:

No licensed physician who performs a medical procedure designed or intended to prevent the death of a pregnant mother is guilty of violating section 2 of this Act. However, the physician shall make reasonable medical efforts under the circumstances to preserve both the life of the mother and the life of her unborn child in a manner consistent with conventional medical practice.

Medical treatment provided to the mother by a licensed physician which results in the accidental or unintentional injury or death to the unborn child is not a violation of this statute.

Nothing in this Act may be construed to subject the pregnant mother upon whom any abortion is performed or attempted to any criminal conviction and penalty.


Section 5. That chapter 22-17 be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows:


Terms used in this Act mean:

"Pregnant," the human female reproductive condition, of having a living unborn human being within her body throughout the entire embryonic and fetal ages of the unborn child from fertilization to full gestation and child birth;


"Unborn human being," an individual living member of the species, homo sapiens, throughout the entire embryonic and fetal ages of the unborn child from fertilization to full gestation and childbirth;


"Fertilization," that point in time when a male human sperm penetrates the zona pellucida of a female human ovum.


Section 6. That § 34-23A-2 be repealed.

Section 7. That § 34-23A-3 be repealed.

Section 8. That § 34-23A-4 be repealed.

Section 9. That § 34-23A-5 be repealed.


Section 10. If any court of law enjoins, suspends, or delays the implementation of a provision of this Act, the provisions of sections 6 to 9, inclusive, of this Act are similarly enjoined, suspended, or delayed during such injunction, suspension, or delayed implementation.


Section 11. If any court of law finds any provision of this Act to be unconstitutional, the other provisions of this Act are severable. If any court of law finds the provisions of this Act to be entirely or substantially unconstitutional, the provisions of § § 34-23A-2, 34-23A-3, 34-23A-4, and 34-23A-5, as of June 30, 2006, are immediately reeffective.


Section 12. This Act shall be known, and may be cited, as the Women's Health and Human Life Protection Act. An Act to establish certain legislative findings, to reinstate the prohibition against certain acts causing the termination of an unborn human life, to prescribe a penalty therefor, and to provide for the implementation of such provisions under certain circumstances.

Source: South Dakota Legislature


http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/abortion/sdabortionlaw06.html


What in the heck is wrong with the people of South Dakota? Are they going to allow their state legislators and governor to deprive them of their civil rights? Are the women of South Dakota willing to allow the government to control their procreative decisions?

Quote:
Under state law, if opponents collect 16,728 signatures of registered voters in the next three months the law will be delayed and a vote held on the issue in November.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/07/national/07abortion.html


Inasmuch as the government has decided that women should not be allowed to decide for themselves whether to have an abortion in the event their birth control fails, the women of South Dakota should initiate a SEX BOYCOTT. They should refuse to end the boycott until all the required signatures are collected to refer the statute to the voters and until the voters reject the statute. After all, if abstinence is what the moral mongers want----abstinence is what they should get.

I wonder how many men would be out there eagerly gathering signatures for referendum ballot if their wives and girlfriends boycotted sex until such time as their civil liberties were fully restored?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 02:15 am
Eorl Wrote:

Quote:
C.I.

The standard answer I get from so-called Christians is that those who die attempting an abortion deserve it (even if it is the product of incest or rape)

In fact, some go so far as to support the death penalty for those who perform or assist abortions....I guess they translate from the original hebrew

"Thou shalt mostly not kill overly much (unless you wanna)"



Standard answer? I can't say I have ever seen this even being mentioned on A2K before, Eorl, so I am guessing you are talking about in real life? I don't think I even know a Christian that would make such a ridiculous statement, so saying this is the "norm" just might be stretching it?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 05:43 am
Coat hangers rules. We don't need no stinking safe clinics.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 06:53 am
Quote:
Alito Sends Dobson a Valentine

During his broadcast today, Focus on the Family founder and president James Dobson promoted his organization's annual ex-gay conference, Love Won Out, in which gays and their families are told that homosexuality is "preventable and treatable." Then, he presented evidence that "the pendulum is swinging back," informing his listeners that he had just received a thank you note from new Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. Dobson praised his listeners for helping to helping to seat John Roberts and Alito in time for a partial-birth abortion case ("in this case, [your activism] absolutely affected history," he told his audience).

Not only is it unprecedented for a Supreme Court justice to send a thank you note to an interest group, it is highly unethical. Alito has admitted that he owes his job to a man who told his listeners today to "please be in prayer that by the time that probition on abortion reaches the Supreme Court, there will be one more conservative justice sitting there." From now on, plaintiffs and defendants in cases dealing with issues from abortion to gay rights to school prayer should demand that Alito recuse himself. Alito is deeply embedded in the pocket of the Christian right and perhaps more compromised than anyone could have imagined.


Here is the text of Alito's letter to Dobson, which Dobson read on air:

Dear Dr. Dobson:

This is just a short note to express my heartfelt thanks to you
and the entire staff of Focus on the Family for your help and
support during the past few challenging months.

I would also greatly appreciate it if you would convey my
appreciation to the good people from all parts of the country who
wrote to tell me that they were praying for me and for my family
during this period.

As I said when I spoke at my formal investiture at the White
House last week, the prayers of so many people from around the
country were a palpable and powerful force.

As long as I serve on the Supreme Court I will keep in mind the
trust that has been placed in me.

I hope that we'll have the opportunity to meet personally at
some point in the future.

In the meantime my entire family and I hope that you and the
Focus on the Family staff know how we appreciate all that you have
done.

Sincerely yours,

Samuel Alito


# posted by max blumenthal @ 1:54 PM
link

So, why do I keep hearing there should be no "litmus test?" Didn't we all know this was why Bush nominated who he did? But, no one wanted to ask or probe or acknowledge what was happening.

my question is, would we rather these children starve to death on the cold streets of South Dakota, since social assistance programs are being cut?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 07:01 am
This is why I am not a Democrat. They had the power to block this idiocy and didn't try too hard.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Mar, 2006 08:35 am
Quote:
The Legislature accepts and concurs with the conclusion of the South Dakota Task Force to Study Abortion, based upon written materials, scientific studies, and testimony of witnesses presented to the task force, that life begins at the time of conception, a conclusion confirmed by scientific advances since the 1973 decision of Roe v. Wade, including the fact that each human being is totally unique immediately at fertilization.

No person may knowingly administer to, prescribe for, or procure for, or sell to any pregnant woman any medicine, drug, or other substance with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being. No person may knowingly use or employ any instrument or procedure upon a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human being.

Nothing in section 2 of this Act may be construed to prohibit the sale, use, prescription, or administration of a contraceptive measure, drug or chemical, if it is administered prior to the time when a pregnancy could be determined through conventional medical testing and if the contraceptive measure is sold, used, prescribed, or administered in accordance with manufacturer instructions.

What a bunch of hypocrites. Life begins at conception (by legislative fiat), but it is OK to kill an embryo (as long as you're not absolutely sure it is there) by using post-conception birth control methods.

Quote:
that to fully protect the rights, interests, and health of the pregnant mother, the rights, interest, and life of her unborn child, and the mother's fundamental natural intrinsic right to a relationship with her child, abortions in South Dakota should be prohibited.

And exactly how is SD fully protecting the rights, interests and health of women who wish to have sexual relationships but whose bodies, careers, or well-being would be impaired by unwanted pregnancy? What makes these idiots think that being female automatically gives us a fundamental, natural, intrinsic desire for motherhood? What about men and their intrinsic desires?

Both men and women should be given the choice of whether to take responsibility for the next 18 years of life of an unwanted embryo, whatever the circumstances of its conception. If both agree to parental responsibility, the pregnancy may continue. If the woman doesn't want to gestate it, she may abort it, since it is her body that is being conscripted for 9 months and she is the one taking all of the medical risks (including a 20% chance of major abdominal surgery). If the woman wants it and the man doesn't, she may bear it if she takes all legal and financial responsibility for it. Parenthood is far too important to be left to chance, and a society that requires its irresponsible or unwilling citizens to bear every accidentally-conceived child is cutting its own throat.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:37 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Eorl Wrote:

Quote:
C.I.

The standard answer I get from so-called Christians is that those who die attempting an abortion deserve it (even if it is the product of incest or rape)

In fact, some go so far as to support the death penalty for those who perform or assist abortions....I guess they translate from the original hebrew

"Thou shalt mostly not kill overly much (unless you wanna)"



Standard answer? I can't say I have ever seen this even being mentioned on A2K before, Eorl, so I am guessing you are talking about in real life? I don't think I even know a Christian that would make such a ridiculous statement, so saying this is the "norm" just might be stretching it?


Since you mention it, I believe it was you supported death penalty for abortion doctors. "real life" is quite clear about the responsibility of pregnancy (and of the pregnant person) being that of those who conceived and no-one else's..... while the foetuses life was his (real life's) responsibility.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:44 pm
:wink: I sure hope that I qualified it by saying if it were "illegal" and they were still performing abortions they should get the death penalty. But, I don't recall exactly what I said. If I get some free time, I'll see if I can find it.

But the statement I considered ridiculous was that anyone would consider that those who die attempting an abortion deserve it. That is the statement I don't believe I have heard (personally) anyone say that.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 07:58 am
Terry wrote-

[
Quote:
Both men and women should be given the choice of whether to take responsibility for the next 18 years of life of an unwanted embryo, whatever the circumstances of its conception.


They have no choice in the matter.They are responsible for ever for a life they create.Whatever they do about that they remain responsible.

And
Quote:
And exactly how is SD fully protecting the rights, interests and health of women who wish to have sexual relationships but whose bodies, careers, or well-being would be impaired by unwanted pregnancy?


Suppose they wish to drive dangerously.They know what to do to avoid unwanted pregnancies surely.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 08:14 am
The self centered arrogance of religious rights doesn't surprise me anymore. Sadly enough. They truly believe that everyone elses life should revolve around their personal religious choices. Even if it involves death and limitations in ones freedom of choice.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 10:31 am
That's what makes for a dangerous religious' right and the neocons; always wanting to change other people's lives by force.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 06:03 pm
spendius wrote:
Terry wrote-

[
Quote:
Both men and women should be given the choice of whether to take responsibility for the next 18 years of life of an unwanted embryo, whatever the circumstances of its conception.


They have no choice in the matter.They are responsible for ever for a life they create.Whatever they do about that they remain responsible.

And
Quote:
And exactly how is SD fully protecting the rights, interests and health of women who wish to have sexual relationships but whose bodies, careers, or well-being would be impaired by unwanted pregnancy?


Suppose they wish to drive dangerously.They know what to do to avoid unwanted pregnancies surely.


You mean like saying "No, daddy....I'm 15 now and you can't make me" Yeah, that should work.
0 Replies
 
 

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