real life wrote:neologist wrote:Real life says his god (never) intends for it to end.
Didn't say this. That was Joe.
Oh, then why does he permit it?
Neologist says: referring to Real life and me.:
Quote:
I say there is an answer you are both overlooking.
Intrigued. I'll be back about 8pm my time.
Joe(peace)Nation
neologist wrote:Chumly wrote: . . .blah and blah . .
are you willing to argue that the murdering of over 6 million Jews was somehow for mans' benefit?
No, but it was permitted for some reason..
WHY?
And a lovely morning to you my friend! You pose a valid question.
neologist wrote:You apparently say that if there is a God, he must be impotent.
No I did not say. I said "he is not all powerful and all knowing he is weak and ignorant." That is not the same as saying impotent which would mean powerless. Given that I will accept that a god exists he must have some powers, if not now, then at some earlier point at the least.
Chumly wrote:For the sake of this argument I will entertain the notion, as if I do not, then there is no point in replying at all!
neologist wrote: Are you saying that God is limited by the things he created?
I am not suggesting the how or why of his limitations only that such limitations provide a reason for suffering.
One of the most important precepts is that we are being tested throughout our whole lives. Allah tests our sincerity and our faith on different occasions. He may give favors to test whether we are grateful to Him or not. He may create difficulties, for us, to reveal whether we behave with patience or not:
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. To Us you will be returned." (Surat al-Anbiya, 21:35)
We are to be tested in various ways. This is explained in the Qur'an in the verse below:
"Be sure we shall test you with fear and hunger, someloss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere." (Surat al-Baqara, 2:155)
Only the individual who has wisdom can realize that he is being tested, and can succeed in these tests by again using his wisdom. Therefore, a believer should not forget that he is being tested throughout his life. These tests cannot be passed or the heaven cannot be attained simply by saying ?'I believe'.
"Do men think that they will be left alone on saying ?'We believe', and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false." (Surat al-Ankaboot, 29:2-3)
And in another verse Allah says:
"Did you think that you would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast?" (Surat Aal-e-Imran, 3:142)
He only 'ignores' us because he created us, and wants us to live as we are. although he may disagree with our ways of living and the amount of death occurring, perhaps he feels that's just the way we are, and he shouldn't inefere.
and when you look at what happened when he did, perhaps it is best he leaves us to ourselves. after all, statistics show that the world is actually improving, so maybe there isn't a need for his input.
Raul-7 wrote:One of the most important precepts is that we are being tested throughout our whole lives.
If god is all-powerful and all-knowing and infinite why would he need to test you?
He would already know everything including the results of any so-called tests.
to see if you are faithful. maybe he has too good a heart to actually look into us and see what we will do, but rather let us do it ourselves.
mans wrote:He only 'ignores' us because he created us, and wants us to live as we are. although he may disagree with our ways of living and the amount of death occurring, perhaps he feels that's just the way we are, and he shouldn't inefere.
and when you look at what happened when he did, perhaps it is best he leaves us to ourselves. after all, statistics show that the world is actually improving, so maybe there isn't a need for his input.
If there is no need for god's input, then why is the bible rife with god's interventionisms. Are you saying that somehow when the bible was written that there was need for god's interventionisms but that now there is not? Why would that be? What about all the so-called miracles and million upon millions of people praying every day to god and thanking god for his hand in their lives today and believing that god has a direct hand in their daily lives? Are they all wrong and you are right?
i am not saying i am right. we could spend years of our lives debating this topic, but we will never know the answer. i am merely guessing, and i suppose so are you. we only know the content of the bible, and nothing else. what God intended is unknown for us, and perhaps always will be, who knows.
mans wrote:to see if you are faithful. maybe he has too good a heart to actually look into us and see what we will do, but rather let us do it ourselves.
If he is all-powerful and all-knowing he could not not-know something, he must by default know-all, or he is not all-powerful and all-knowing.
yes, but if he is all-powerful he has control over the default, doesn't he?
Man, in his limited intellect tries to determine what God had planned and how He governs over his plan.
true - we are all obsessed with finding out the unknown, it seems. Before the enlightenment, people accepted everything, but during and after they would believe nothing unless it was proved.
mans wrote:yes, but if he is all-powerful he has control over the default, doesn't he?
As soon as he moderates the default down from 100% power he is not all powerful anymore now is he?
If you want to play the snake eating it's tale game, give it a try!
For example: Is god so powerful that he can make a rock so big that even he himself can't lift it?
Intrepid in his limited intellect tries to determine what Chumly had planned and how Chumly governs over his plan
ahh, the whole rock thing is confusing, ur right
but actually, chasing the tail is fun, so maybe i'll continue thinking for a while.
Momma Angel wrote:Pauligirl,
I understand that you don't believe He exists. But, if He does and He is the only true God, He doesn't need an ego. There are no other Gods for Him to be bigger than. 
Big IF ya got there. The god inventors and writers had to make their god bigger and meaner that rival tribal gods. What would be the point of having a puny little god?
It's only human nature.
P
