Who's booty you kissing?

Frank,

Are you trying to tell me and others that you don't think the God of the Bible is barbarious, murderous, spiteful, and a bunch of other words you have used?

IMO you are either playing with words or playing with our minds...

....on this one, Frank. But, I will give you the benefit of a doubt. Can you please explain to me why all this time you have typed these words in relation to God in the Bible if you don't actually (use your word because I don't know what to use) that way?

Confused in Louisiana.[/color]

How is this possible time after time after time?????

Yeah, I've often heard it said that indifference, rather than hate, is the opposite of love. In my experience, I can see how that would be true.

There is a scripture that says "perfect love casts out fear"(1 John 4:18).

Heph, I read your post on page 24. I must tell you how sorry I am to hear you suffered so.

My own trials have now been put into proper perspective.

I've been quite busy and hope to get back to the board soon; but I just wanted to say this.

snood wrote:

Yeah, I've often heard it said that indifference, rather than hate, is the opposite of love. In my experience, I can see how that would be true.

There is a scripture that says "perfect love casts out fear"(1 John 4:18).

You know I'm glad you brought this up snood. Thank you. In order to understand it better it is good to look at the original greek wording used. However in all fairness you also have to look at the whole scripture. Anyone can pick and choose words out of anything and make it out to be whatever they want it to.

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Love:
26. agape ag-ah'-pay from 25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast:--(feast of) charity(-ably), dear, love.

Fear:
5401. phobos fob'-os from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear); alarm or fright:--be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.

As you can see from the original word "phobos" this is the "barbaric" type of fear that is cast out by love.

Fear:
1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God>
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm
intransitive senses : to be afraid or apprehensive
- fear·er noun

Not to be mistaken with the fear of the Lord:

Psalm 22
23 You who fear(3373) the LORD, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear(1481) Him, all you offspring of Israel!

3373 yare' yaw-ray' from 3372; fearing; morally, reverent:--afraid, fear (-ful).

1481 guwr goor a primitive root; properly, to turn aside from the road (for a lodging or any other purpose), i.e. sojourn (as a guest); also to shrink, fear (as in a strange place); also to gather for hostility (as afraid):--abide, assemble, be afraid, dwell, fear, gather (together), inhabitant, remain, sojourn, stand in awe, (be) stranger, X surely.

Fear:
1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God>
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm
intransitive senses : to be afraid or apprehensive
- fear·er noun

After looking at this I can understand why barbaric fear I could be considered opposite of love. However there is more than one kind of fear. I don't believe that the fear of God is opposite of love. I still believe it works hand in hand in some aspects. Love matched with reverence, not being afraid, but being in awe of.

However, having done some research I am realizing a few things about fear I never saw before. There are actually several different greek and hebrew words that were translated into fear. Some are very similar in meaning and others, like what I've shown here, are different. I need to look into this further because I'm a little surprised at the results I'm getting here. LOL (Miss eppie may have talked herself right into a corner on this one!) Don't get too excited though... It's not over till the fat lady sings... LOL... Oh boy...

I find quite a lot of arguments that have a religious element to them tend to be circular in nature.

hephzibah,

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences. The way I interpret your posts is that faith can not be rationalized. In my opinion, belief in anything divine comes through intuitive feeling rather than through detached analysis.

I suspect that fear of the Lord only means being morally reverent without involving any actual fear, because modern Christians redefined it as such.

And you having delivered that very circuituous etymology lesson, we arrive at square one. But I hope you feel better for holding forth.

I find quite a lot of arguments that have a religious element to them tend to be circular in nature.

I would venture the opinion that love and apathy are opposites. Fear is a simple motivator.

I think you'll find the "derogatory comments" have no bearing on the circular nature.

The circular nature of the argument is not just circular logic, I was referring to. It was also circular debate. Debating the same point over and over again, because one side can't understand the other.

It is not derogatory in any manner. It is a fact about religious debates. They go round in circles. I merely pointed out the blindingly obvious, which I assume, Frank was mocking me for doing.

Wolf, I do understand your point. I'm just saying if you don't like the direction it's going, or you feel it is going in circles, then change it. Present an agrument that can be argued and pull it out of the circular motion rather than just making a negative comment about the direction it's going.

I think you'll find the "derogatory comments" have no bearing on the circular nature.

The circular nature of the argument is not just circular logic, I was referring to. It was also circular debate. Debating the same point over and over again, because one side can't understand the other.

It is not derogatory in any manner. It is a fact about religious debates. They go round in circles. I merely pointed out the blindingly obvious, which I assume, Frank was mocking me for doing.