Who's booty you kissing?

Well Mr. Chumly sir, first of all let me recall to your memory that I said: "It has done ME no harm. It has only done ME good."

Ya gotta have the right perspective!

So... Frank, Ty, tell me how I would benefit greatly? I sincerely would like to know what the benefits of not believing in God would be.

hephzibah wrote:

So... Frank, Ty, tell me how I would benefit greatly? I sincerely would like to know what the benefits of not believing in God would be.

Heph...

...well, let me first acknowledge that there are benefits to "believing in" gods.

There is comfort derived from supposing there is a god looking over you...that there is always "someone" to whom you can "turn for help." In a sense...believing in god is much like always having a loving parent available...always ready to listen and, after a fashion, help in times of stress.

That having been said, however...there is an analogy to the old saying: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach him to fish, and he can eat for the rest of his life.

There is at least the possibility that every time you've ever asked your god for help...you have been doing nothing more than talking to yourself.

On those occasions when your god answered with help and the problem was handled satisfactorily...there is the possibility that you simply sucked it up on your own...and dealt with whatever it is you asked help to handle.

And on those occasions when your god withheld help and you rationalized it by saying that your god sometimes says "yes" and sometimes says "no" (for good reason, of course)...

...and the problem became torture...didn't go away...got worse...

...there is the possibility that you simply let yourself down...that you didn't get sufficient mileage out of what you have to offer yourself.

I don't know if there is a god...and I don't know (if there is one) that the god is the kind of god that would get involved with the day to day tribulations of humans. And if there is such a god...I don't know that "believing in it" would be one of the criteria the god would require for lending a hand.

My guess is that you don't know either.

To simply guess there is and to give that god credit (and sometime hidden blame) for what happens in your life...makes you, in my opinon, less a full person.

NOT BELIEVING IN GOD...to directly answer your question...eliminates this area of your life. It allows you to give yourself credit when credit is due (nothing like a well-deserved self-administered atta girl)...and allows you to see when you've screwed up so you can make the adjustments that will ease (or avoid entirely) later screw-ups.

Whether he was being sarcastic or not, Snood said it plainly: You'd be captain of your boat; master of your destiny.

And as Chumly mentioned: You'd be relieved of an unnecessary (perhaps unwarranted) set of obligations that you really don't need in your life.

We'll talk about this more, because your question is an excellent one. I want to reflect on it a bit more. Just came across it after going out for dinner.

Probably more tomorrow on this.

...

I was going to respond to this sooner but I was on a tangent last night. I'm done now. It amazes me at the anger that pops up inside of me sometimes. Never-the-less I appreciate the sincere responses here. I am gaining a new perspective from this. Please don't misunderstand me though. My feet are firmly planted in what I believe. I have lived on boths sides of the fence, so to speak. I remember what it was like to be on that side. Of course there were no benefits to it during my time there. Which is why I want to know how you believe it benefits yourself to not believe in God. However, nothing you say here will be used against you in future conversations by me. I just want to understand. I hope that's ok.

hephzibah wrote:

So... Frank, Ty, tell me how I would benefit greatly? I sincerely would like to know what the benefits of not believing in God would be.

Heph,

What an excellent question, and you ask it in the spirit of genuine sincerity.

At this moment imagine you're a back seat passenger, careening down life's busy highway. Some people are perfectly fine in that position, preferring to allow someone else to drive, while they watch the scenery go by, trusting in the driving skills of the one behind the wheel. If there's a certain destination you have in mind, you'll usually make the request known. But there's no telling really if that's your destination or not.

This is all terribly frustrating to you now. Some of these destinations haven't met with your approval, but who are you to question? You've become more vocal about it, but others have expressed their disapproval at this distraction. The frustration sometimes builds where an inevitable backlash occurs, and the other passengers in the vehicle feel your increasing anger like a laser beam burning on them.

Some people it seems aren't made to be passengers.

Your anger is misplaced, IMO. Order the driver to stop at a wide spot in the road. Open the doors and demand everyone get out. Slide behind the wheel, put it in drive, and for a brief moment pause.

The next breath you take will be the freshest and freest you will ever experience.

The exhilaration will be so great you won't even hear the muttering complaints of the stranded passengers, who are not even worthy of a glance in the rear view mirror. The vehicle, now empty of all the excess baggage, responds effortlessly to the slightest touch of your foot on the accelerator, easily threading its way through any lane you so choose. This is an inestimable benefit, to be in full control.

It's also a benefit to lose the numerous unseen spirits which haunt a typical Christian's world. You'll notice there is no evil bugaboo under your bed or in your closet at night. All the angels and demons who were fighting for your soul vanish. Grandma is no longer looking through a crack in the floor of heaven. The shackles are removed of the thoughts of countless voyeurs spying and recording your every thought and move.

Events in your life gain new significance. Normal everyday events. You begin to live in the moment and you find that especially rewarding. Friendships take on new relevance when an unnecessary layer is stripped away, and the relationship is allowed to focus on the here and now, the what is.

You begin to realize your conversations with the previous driver were all one way.

You also find new responsibilities come before you. The moral packet handed to you at the church door needs a thorough examination. Wrong turns must be assigned fault, and where that lies is obvious. The "fear" of which you currently speak about will be the fear of not meeting your own expectations, and no one else's.

But like I said, not all people care to be drivers. Frank and Chumly have served you some great advice and have given it with the greatest good will, and I offer you best wishes for your search. The keys to your sleek automobile are in reach.

Regards,

Tycoon

Yeah, Heph - it's like you'll be your own god. Who could resist an offer like that? Who?

Gawsh. did someone say moral license?

Well Mr. Chumly sir, first of all let me recall to your memory that I said: "It has done ME no harm. It has only done ME good."

hephzibah wrote:

Jason, you have got to be one the most friggin hard headed dudes I've ever met. GOOD GOD!

I know.
Gotta love me, right? :wink:

And can't you tell that I'm all-loving, too.

hephzibah wrote:

Just answer the stinkin question. Unless of course you don't have an answer.

You're right. I probably don't know an answer to this question…

hephzibah wrote:

I think we all know and are crystal clear on the fact that your answer and my answer could be quite different.

That's why I asked you the question in the first place, sweetheart. I wanted to know your take on this.

hephzibah wrote:

I want to know what your answer is. I know what mine is.

I know what my answer is too…but have you heard the phrase "ladies first"? Or are you one of those feminists?

hephzibah wrote:

So just answer the stinkin question you butthead.

Not with this attitude of yours, I won't.

hephzibah wrote:

Prove to me you have a brain too.

Who the hell told you I have a brain? Have you seen any evidece of such thing?

(Do you have a personal vendetta with me, love?)

hephzibah wrote:

Well Mr. Chumly sir, first of all let me recall to your memory that I said: "It has done ME no harm. It has only done ME good."

Or, it has prevented you from having the self esteem you might have if you acknowledge that perhaps your accomplishments were of your own doing.

I want to make one comment here that someone else (not sure who) alluded to...and which is important to why some of us go through the bother of discussing these issues with theists...and why we effort to persuade them that our take on the matter is well worth consideration.

Besides the individual "benefits or non-benefits" on the issue...there is the aggregate impact on civilization of "belief systems."

hephzibah wrote:

Well Mr. Chumly sir, first of all let me recall to your memory that I said: "It has done ME no harm. It has only done ME good."

I am aware of the "ME" part. You might want to read the last bit of my post which was to your point, I guess you missed it. Most of my post was basically a preamble to the last bit which contains the "ME" thought experiment.

neologist wrote:

Ya gotta have the right perspective!

Good humors!