hephzibah wrote:Well, if you are talking about the God that sent His people into various places to overtake them, kill them, meaning everyone man woman and child, plunder their goods, and so forth, then yes, I can see why He would be seen as barbaric, unforgiving, jealous, all that.
Is there another one??? That is the only one I have to work with.
Quote:This God that you describe as jealous, quick tempered, slow to forgive, unreasonable in expectations, duplicitous, vengeful, retributive, mean-spirited, revenge driven, unnecessarily tyrannical, incredibly petty, murderous, and barbaric, had a purpose for everything that happened.
We had a purpose in dropping an atomic bomb in the middle of a city filled with men, women, children, and various other animals.
Having a purpose does not excuse anything...and having whatever "purposes" you plan to offer for this god is not going to change the fact that the god is jealous, quick tempered, slow to forgive, unreasonable in expectations, duplicitous, vengeful, retributive, mean-spirited, revenge driven, unnecessarily tyrannical, incredibly petty, murderous, and barbaric.
But we can certainly discuss it.
Quote:Everything that was done. Everything that was said.
You see what you are saying here, Heph, is that no matter how disgusting the things done by this god...you are going to excuse it. You are going to attempt to rationalize it.
We are going to do battle (I hope "friendly" battle) as you attempt that. It will be interesting. I hope you enjoy it as much as I will.
Quote: If you would like to show me specific examples of God behaving this way I would be happy to look at it with you. I think it might make things a little easier to understand if we actually look at these references you are talking about.
Sure.
And why not start at the beginning. (Before I do...keep this in mind. If you are going to dismiss any of the things I present as "allegory"...be prepared to discuss what the "allegory" is trying to teach.)
In Genesis...the god places Adam and Eve...two innocents...into a garden which has, for no other purpose than to tempt them, a tree in its center whose fruit they are forbidden to eat. The tree is referred to as "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." If they eat of the fruit of this tree, they will gain the knowledge of good and evil...and this is what the god is attempting to prevent them from obtaining.
The god, for no good reason, allows the greatest Tempter of all history to be in the garden with the two. The Tempter, as was its wont, tempts them to eat of the fruit.
Mind you...at the point where they are facing an unneeded temptation...and being egged on by this great Tempter...the are completely and totally oblivious as to what it means to be good or evil. They have absolutely no idea that disobedience, for instance, is bad or evil....and obedience is good or moral.
And, as any five year old could have told the god...they succumb to temptation and eat the fruit....and learn what good and evil is.
In effect, they could not commit sin...or disobedience...or anything bad or evil...
...because all knowledge of such things had been denied them BY THE GOD.
But they did what they did...one small infraction...under the influence of the greatest Tempter of all time...one tiny bit of disobedience that they did not even understand as disobedience or bad or evil...
...and what does the god do?
The god punishes them by throwing the book...and the rest of the Library at them. They lose immortality...the gain pain...and a host of other stuff.
And the god then punishes ALL THE REST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL THE REST OF ETERNITY...for this act.
Talk to me about this, Heph.
