Montana - you're quite right to try to rid yourself of the anger and resentment you may still feel from these injustices which were visited upon you so cruelly.
I've had a past too.
Nothing is more damaging to ones ability to live life to the full as a healthy and liberated human being than is the indulgence of whole reservoirs of negative emotions and resentments left over from past experiences.
'Get thee behind me, Satan!' is not a bad credo to live by. Nothing is more self-defeating and emotionally exhausting than to keep chasing the ghosts of the past.
You've shown great courage in your adversity, Montana, and you deserve nothing less than a full, and rich, and happy life awaiting you in the years ahead for you and your loved ones.
Thank you herbert. I appreciate that :-)
I have basically put it all behind me, but then I run into threads such as these and run into one of the bullies at my work place, it brings it all back.
As much as I'd like to completely put it behind me, I feel so strongly about it that I think it's important to speak up every now and again.
Montana...
Quote:What are you trying to say, herbert?
You keep losing me
I've been lost for years... just ask Momma Angel. If you find me let me know won't you, Montana... ?
(While my point was that the
threat of a very painful caning managed to keep we boys from straying into barbarism and feral behaviour - Bill meanwhile decried this as 'silly'... But! If I understand you correctly - you applauded the system we boys had lived under as something exemplary for having totally eliminated any bullying).
Ok, I see what you're saying. I read back to some of your latest posts and I was wondering were you saw that I had compassion for the bullies.
I agreed with everything else Bill said, but I have to admit that I missed that part.
I agree with you there and strongly believe that these kids need major dicipline.
It's very important that you should express your thoughts and feelings without reservation about these personal experiences and memories which are so very much an inextricable and integral part of your psychology and emotions.
Don't feel you need to be apologetic for speaking candidly here about those things which most threaten your freedom to be a happy and liberated human being.
I've just got to make this point again... It was NOT the caning, per se, which beat discipline into us - it was the threat[/i] of getting the sort of caning which made some of our toughest kids cry like babies which pulled the rest of us into shape...
As a matter of fact, the disciplinary benefits of caning diminish exponentially with its repetition...
Think of the lions at the circus... it's the threat[/i] of the cracking whip which keeps these big felines as docile and manageable as pussy-cats.
The threat of... the threat of... the threat of...
Thanks, herbert. I needed that.
I know my view on this ticks off a lot of people here that I've known for several years and that's the only part I hate, but hey, I don't always agree with them either, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You're not wrong about having a few simpering namby-pamby Bachelor of Artz leftwing-liberal wankers inhabiting the woodwork here... they are the true white ants of Western society.
We'll just speak our mind and keep them on the run won't we Montana... ?
We'll keep the white ants here scrambling to get out of our way...
At least I've been acused of being a liberal. I don't like labels much.
Oh dear, that's just 'rooned' a beautiful friendship...
... No Christmas card for
you this year...
I'm off to have some catfish at Momma Angel's place down by the bayou...
Montana,
I spent my early years getting bullied and abused, so I can see where you are coming from. Also, raising my kids, the neighborhood parents allowed their kids to do anything they wanted, including bullying. When I would knock on the door to tell what their kid did, they all got angry and told me what a jerk I am. Nothing helped. While I don't believe a kid ought to be in an adult court or jail, I do believe there has to be legal action taken for the truly bad ones. It is unacceptable that kids should walk in fear of them.
So true Edgar. I understand that some parents need to take some responsability, such as ones like you mentioned who condone this behavior from their kids. This obviously makes matters much worse.
In fact, the mother of the 2 neighborhood kids who use to bully my son in the states actually encouraged her kids to do what they were doing. I've caugh her several times behind trees telling her kids what to do. Sick woman she was!
So yeah, these kinds of parents should be locked up themselves.
The majority of bullies I've know came from good homes, so that's why I don't focus on the parents much.
I'm looking at what I've seen/experienced in schools when I was a student and by what I saw happening with the schools when my son went through what he did.
<sigh> What a mess!
Herbert, I may have been more condesending than the situation called for. I can understand your argument for corporal punishment as a deterrent factor. I also can see where a regimented daily routine like that of a military school could convey the same, without the barbaric ritual of caning. Surely an extra 50 hours of embarrasing labor would have yielded the same effects of "dude's behavior is stupid, considering, not cool". While not terribly old; I'm old enough to have seen the ritual of beatings passed down from one generation to the next and to have seen it misunderstood and the reasoning perverted. Through no fault of your own you may inadvertantly poison a young mind into thinking threat of pain is a reasonable way of dealing with that which he disapproves of. I myself, probably would have benefited from a caning or two growing up, but also see that there are other ways to exact the desired result that don't threaten to poisen the young mind with a faulty "might makes right" mentality. I still maintain that might makes right when and if might is right... like in the case of defending the rights of those unable to fend for themselves. However; I wholeheartily disagree that the practice of coroporal punishment is sound, because the lessons it teaches are too frequently contrary to those intended. There are better ways.
Montana, no need to thank me for my understanding. I am a product of my mother who told me never to resort to violence unless: I have no choice because I'm in harm's way
or I see a little boy trying to hurt a little girl. "Then you hit him with everything you got Billy"
words to live by
and I have. I include weaker men in the context of "little girl" but I am certain my mom would have approved. At this point, as I'm sure you know, I am my own man to the extreme
but the traits you are thanking me for should be passed on to honor an honorable upbringing. Thanks mom.
BTW, Montana, you are definitely a "liberal"
but this has no significance in the subject matter at hand. Further, any rational examination by a non-liberal of a liberal; must recognize the inherent, almost inevitably so, good intentions of same. Don't ever apologize for your beliefs.
Thank you Bill's mom :-D
Bill
I wish my mom had taught me to fight back, but she just told me to ignore them and walk away.
My mom also hates violence, so she didn't know really what to tell me. Of course I'll never blame her for that, but it taught me to teach my son to defend himself.
After I quit school, I started working out and lifting weights every spare moment I had. After 2 years of doing this, I felt pumped, so I went out and confronted every bully that tormented me all those years. I was more than ready to fight and I told them to bring it on.
To my surprise, every single last one of them backed down and never bothered me again.
Unfortunately, it was too late to get my life back.
Because of my experience, I've always taught my son to stand up to the bully and that served him well.
Unfortunately, the bullies are finding other tactics within the school systems and the law to set these kids up, just like what happened to my son. My son stood up to the kid and of course the coward backed down, but he found another way to abuse him.
It's so very frustrating.
You're all right, Bill :-D
Occom Bill....
Quote:Herbert, I may have been more condesending than the situation called for.
Not at all. It's quite proper that you should feel passionate about this issue and have strong feelings about what you believe are the best solutions for dealing with the worst cases of violent criminal behaviour.
(But just quietly to myself though, it does amuse me that I have been broadly lambasted on this board as some sort of satan-worshipping baby-eater for having occasionally expressed a few conservative opinions.... and yet meanwhile, despite all your impassioned advocacy for the death penalty to be dished out for
this[/i] sort of criminal and
that sort of criminal - you yourself haven't drawn one word of criticism, or shock/horror, or condemnation from the leftwing-trendies who infest this site and who are so quick to find fault with me. I think that's hilarious!)
As for corporal punishment - with many budding delinquents it's a case of spare the rod and spoil the child.
A very large percentage of today's pre-teenagers, teenagers and adolescents have almost no concept of fear. They have never had that emotion inspired and indexed into their mind as a result of a caning or two in their earlier years for acts of misbehaviour.
Everywhere I go in public I see children and youths behaving very poorly precisely because at no time in their growing years have they ever had to worry about the possibility of painful consequences being visited upon them for their delinquent behaviour.
On the trains, in the buses, on the streets, in the shopping malls - everywhere I look I see youths behaving with slovenly and arrogant disregard for those around them. Get on any train and you'll see feet up on the seats and a posture of belligerent threat to anyone who should dare to challenge their right to behave like pigs.
These are, in the main, youths who have learnt during their years of childhood that they can behave like this with complete impunity from any punishment or censure. They behave like bastards precisely because society has told them they can behave like bastards.
They've learnt this at school - and they've learnt this at home with parents who are more concerned with their popularity with their offspring than they are with teaching them discipline and manners with the help of the occasional spanking.
Lewis Carroll, 1832-1898
Speak roughly to your little boy,
And beat him when he sneezes:
He only does it to annoy,
Because he knows it teases.
Chorus: Wow! wow! wow!
I speak severely to my boy,
I beat him when he sneezes;
For he can thoroughly enjoy
The pepper when he pleases!
Chorus: Wow! wow! wow!
