Juveniles charged with violent crimes should tried as adults

Big+Soft+Furry,

Here is a site you might want to start with.

http://www.cjcj.org/press/doubts_confidence.html

When you say juveniles, do you have a certain age in mind? This is kind of a iffy thing to me. Some ten year olds are more mature than some adults. I definitely think this has to be decided on a case by case basis with definitive research done into the life of the child and their situation.

Once again we see the trendies of the liberal-left trying their damnedest to wreck Western society by turning it on its head with a whole lot of ideological crap about children not knowing right from wrong.

These are the very same social-Marxist wrecking-balls who fought so hard to get corporal punishment banned from our schools - with the result that today we have a whole generation which has little understanding of personal responsibility - and even less regard for such social niceties as politeness and good manners.

Western society should go the way of Singapore and cane the little bastards to give them both a lesson and a punishment for thinking its smart to behave like enemies of society.

All right, I see the sense in that. I believe what you believe, if ANYONE commits a crime, such as murder for example, without the defensive act of self defense, I believe that they should be tried.

Momma Angel...

This is precisely where the whole thing has gone wrong. We have law courts whose proper role is to do no more than dish out appropriate sentences to those who come before the benches for having committed crimes against the decent citizens of society.

It's high time that those who sit on the bench stopped thinking of themselves as bleeding-heart social workers who want to reform society's villains through the ingratiating tactic of issuing absurdly lenient sentences.

Here in Australia we have whole legions of young delinquents and petty criminals freely prowling the streets as a menace to society -- all with the full blessing of a score of bleeding-heart magistrates and judges who believe their role is to be bleeding-heart benefactors to those in society who least deserve this kind consideration.

And I want to see far fewer woman being accepted by the bar to preside over our law courts.

I was in full agreement with you until I saw this: " And I want to see far fewer woman being accepted by the bar to preside over our law courts. "

Then you are more ignorant than I took you to be Montana.


The human brain does not reach full maturity...frontal lobes wise...until around 25. (Though some functions like maths reach their peak earlier...but these do not include full social maturity.)

Therefore, 18, which is the age at which legal adulthood is reached in Australia, is already a compromise.

Also, Herberts shows its ignorance, in that serious violent crimes by juveniles can already, in this country, be tried in adult courts.

Such cases as murder and serious assault by older juveniles are frequently tried in adult courts (not that so many juveniles commit them) and juveniles serve their sentence for them in adult prisons once they turn 18.

However, the juvenile system, at least in my state, is based on the reality that young brains are not fully formed, and that EIGHTY PERCENT of juveniles, once they are dealt with officially, do NOT REAPPEAR before a court.

The other 20% , of course, are the ones who reach the media etc., leading to the kind of stuff spouted by Herberts.

Dlowan
I was refering to kids who commit serious crimes such as murder, but I also feel that kids are getting more and more out of control and something needs to be done, IMO.

MORE ignorant than you took me to be? Wow! That hurt, Deb.

Huh?

I was REFERRING to serious crimes lik emurder. Did you read the post?

"MORE ignorant than you took me to be? Wow! That hurt, Deb."

Then you are reacting to a net artefact, Montana. Try not putting the accent on "more".

Yeah, I read the post and I agree 100% that the courts are far too lenient with kids.
I don't like the way herberts presented his/her post, but I'm on the same page as far as the point that was being made.
Not about the social workers or all his/her other ramblings, just the point he/she was making.
Jeeeeez!!! Sometimes I wish I'd add more to my post, so I don't end up looking like a complete idiot!

I mean, if a kid beats up another kid just because the kid is fat, etc.., I think this kid is going to continue to hurt other kids until he/she is stopped.

Just my opinion.

I don't think you look like a complete idiot. Your post was reasonable, and you stated what you wanted to say. Its just more how dlowan read it than how you said it. It was twisted by his mind, and he read it as a different way than you meant.

I personally think there should be some type of little boot camp where these kids can learn some dicipline. If the courts keep letting these kids get away with abusing other people, breaking into their homes and what not, then who protects us from those kids.
I know countless of kids who have been in and out of the court system for years and they laugh about it. I've talked to these kids and they think it's the balls that they can get away with stuff just because they're monors.
In the mean time, they continue their wonderful world of crime.
You say their brains are not completely developed and I say that they are developed enough to know what they're doing.

I think you're right, which is why I mentioned that I needed to add more to my post in the future.

Sorry if there was any misunderstanding, Deb. My last post says clearly where I stand, so I hope that clears some things up.

The boot camp idea is neat- but personally I believe that it would get involved with many issues. For one, lots of parents don't want thier children messed around with and worked hard in a boot camp. I am sure some would make their kids go, but others would be hesitent. I believe that their should simply be a rehab center or something- if it were to go in that direction.
(I am sorry I am using quick reply, so I might have a few errors in grammar/spelling)

I was thinking more on the lines of the parents not having a choice in the matter. The courts could give the parents the choice of either prison or little people boot camp.
I'm not talking about your every day minor trouble makers. I mean the violent kids who are out of control.
The courts keep sending these kids back out into the world thinking they can do whatever they want.

A rehab center sounds like a great idea and I think it would be great if they had one just for violent kids. That way they could deal specificaly with the violent issues.

I did not misunderstand you Montana...but you did misread my response.

I get quite passionate about this stuff, partly because, at least in my country, a lot of people spout crap, such as herberts', with no understanding either of the problem, or of how the system works...and also because here, at least, based on this kind of woolly revenge based thinking, governments are involved in obscene auctions about "getting tough on crime"...hence spending more and more money on imprisonment, while that same money, if spent on good early intervention programs, would make a real difference. But no....appealing to people's primitive desire for vengeance makes for good publicity.

At least here, "treating juveiles as adults" does not extend to killing them, which it does extend to in the US.

Do you folk support that? Executing kids? Because that is what it means in America.


Do you think imprisoning kids will make them LESS likely to be violent? Especially if they are put in an adult prison, where they will be raped.... and brutalised more efficiently than they have been previously.

Sure, sadly some kids commit crimes which mean they have to be put away, for the safety of the rest of us, but this kind of "lock 'em up" mentality appals me.


I am aware that murder is far more common in the US than here, so you guys will have a much greater percentage of juveniles who have murdered than we do...but I do not think that is true of Canada, Montana, is it?

And to say that some 10 year olds have an adult understanding of their crimes (as MA said) is sheer nonsense, flying in the face of the sheer facts about the development of frontal lobes, which govern such understanding.




Please note the actual topic as put down by BSF:

" Juveniles charged with violent crimes should be tried and punished as adults."

Montana...

'Ramblings'... ?

Criminal defence lawyers take great care to go 'shopping' for lenient magistrates who they know from their track record will go easy on their clients - and in almost every case their first choice is to seek out female judges or magistrates to preside over their client's case.

Herbert QC., Esq.

Dlowan
I have already stated in other threads that I am against the death penalty and I am also very passionate about this subject because both my son and I spent years being the victim of violent kids.
I quit school when I was 15 having to get my GED later on because I was being terrorized every single day in school. I went through this for years, so yeah, I know something about the issue.
I told teachers, school counsellors, priciples, etc that I was being attacked amnd threatened on a daily bases and they did nothing. One of my principles said "what do you want me to do, follow you around all day.
I told my parent who talked to the schools, who again did nothing.
I was trapped in the prison the called school and continued to be attacked.
You don't have a clue as to what I went through because not one damned adult was willing to protect me.
Do you have any idea how many times I thought about taking my own life because I couldn't take it anymore?
Do you know how many times I thought about bringing a knife to school to protect myself?
This is a girl who never had a violent bone in her body.
Then there's the neighborhood gang of kids that use to terrorize my son right in our own front yard. My son couldn't even walk down our street without them ganging up on him.
So I called the cops (I can't count the times) and absolutely nothing was ever done.
Just like adults, there are violent kids and non violent kids, but they shouldn't be able to get away with violent crimes just because they are kids.
The courts protect us from the violent adults and we should be protected from violent kids as well.
Hell, the way the system is set up now, the kids have found ways to use that system to abuse their own parents. Kid gets pissed off at mom, goes to school and tells them lies about mom and the next thing you know, child protection services is investigating mom. Kid sits back with a grin knowing he/she found a way to control his/her parents.
They also do the same thing to other kids in school. One little **** did it to my kid. The kid didn't like my son because my son was the new kid and the girls liked him. So this kid made up lies about my son to the teachers saying my son was violent and threatened to bring a gun to school and in turn, my son was suspended from school 3 times in 2 months for doing nothing.
My son is just like me and doesn't have a violent bone in his body.
This is one of the reasons why I had to pull my son out of school and home school him for his last 5 years of school.
The school told me that they dodn't believe my son because they didn't know him, so they went with the word of the school punk.
Not long after I pulled my son out of school, the school punk was thrown out of school. Go figure.
I worked with several young kids last year. A bunch of them were 15 and were thrown out of school. I talked with these kids on their lever, so they were comfortable enough talking with me to tell me stuff. After they talked about their ever so violent lives, I had long talks with them trying to get them to see things more clearly. I told them exactly where their life of crime would lead them and then I talked with them about all the great things they can do with their lives and how good they will feel about themselves.
I did get through to one of these kids, but it was too late. He was hanging with the wrong crowd and one of the older boys in the group (he was 20) just pulled out a gun and robbed some people on the beach. He also assaulted one of those people.
So, my young co-worker was arrested and charged with the same crime as the one who did it.
I tried telling my little friend that the crowd he was hanging with was bad news. I even told him that if someone in his crowd did some crime while he was there, he would be charged with the same crime. I told him he'd be guikty by association.
This kid was abandoned by his crack head mom when he was 8 and is with his drug dealing dad now, if he's not in prison and I know if I or anyone else had gotten to him sooner, he wouldn't be in this mess.
My point is that these kids need to be dealt with when they are young.
If I had a little more time with my little friend who called me mom, I know I could have made a difference and I wonder why the schools to this day are not equipped to deal with these kids.
They have no idea how to talk to them or to get through to them. They don't have a clue as to what makes these kids tick.
I grew up in poor neighborhoods most of my life, so I was right smack in the middle of the rough crowd and I know what makes them tick.
You talk as if I know nothing on the subject and I assire you that I know plenty.
Violent kids are full of rage, just like violent adults and there needs to be a place where these kids can go to learn how to direct that anger into positive things.
That's why DBD's rehab suggestion ias a great idea, IMO.
Canada is not as bad as the states, but that's only because there are less people here.
When I went back to work, I was amazed at the high rate of crime committed in these parts by kids.
From what I told you about the school situation, that convinced me that the schools are no better here than they are in the states and the bullies rule.
Both my son and I will never see a real high school diploma all because of bullies, so you see Deb, I also take this subject to heart.
The bullies are controlling the schools and they are using the system to control their parents, so my question is, who controls them?

I'd be willing to bet that you wouldn't have a problem woth me being the judge ;-)