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Please help save an innocent man from execution

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:12 pm
Joe,

Did you read my post regarding the paying attention comment?
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:16 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Joe,

Did you read my post regarding the paying attention comment?

Yes, I did.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:28 pm
O-K. Not sure what to say so I guess I won't say a thing. :wink:
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:36 pm
Here's why Maye was convicted and given the death penalty: The jurors didn't like Maye's attorney and they thought Mayes' mommy and granny had spoiled him when he was growing up.

Quote:
Maye's attorney tells me that after the trial, she spoke with two jurors by phone. She learned from them that the consensus among jurors was that Maye was convicted for two reasons. The first is that though they initially liked her, Maye's lawyer, the jury soured on her when, in her closing arguments, she intimated that if the jury showed no mercy for Maye, God might neglect to bestow mercy on them when they meet him in heaven. They said the second reason May was convicted was that the jury felt he'd been spoiled by his mother and grandmother, and wasn't very respectful of elders and authority figures. The facts of the case barely entered the picture. Gotta' love the South.


http://www.theagitator.com/archives/025962.php#025962
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 05:40 pm
Say what? Shocked Debra, I know they did it, but CAN they do that? What the heck did that stuff have to do with the facts? I'm rather embarrassed right now to say I live in the south. I'm just glad I'm not living in Mississippi. No offense anyone. Just venting. The more I read about this case, the angrier I become.
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mans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2006 11:28 pm
yeah, the actions of those people is desgusting. i hope they....nah, i won't say. i'd write a letter in my sudden annoyance, but probs by the time i figured out what to say and by the time it crossed half the world, he'd already be dead.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2006 11:31 pm
I believe they are holding a hearing tomorrow for Cory. I am trying to find out if tomorrow is the day.

Okay, the hearing is tentatively scheduled for February 27. Sending best wishes and prayers Cory's way!
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 12:49 am
joefromchicago wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
It's no big mystery, Joe. I am aware of no such similar case.

Then I will simply say to you what I said to Momma Angel: you should have been paying attention.

Cases of Innocence - 1973 to present

So, in summary there were 122 mistakes made (all corrected, on that list) along with about a 1,000 completed executions in 23 years. On the shorter list of "Executed But Possibly Innocent" are 6 names, no certainty… and an honorary mention of a woman who may have been guilty of murder in a lesser degree, 60 years ago. Not one of these cases was difficult to distinguish from the case at hand. Not one showed a man with no prior convictions; convicted for defending his own home. I understand this is a convenient place to set up your soapbox, Joe, but Cory's case stands out even more for having read the materials you graciously supplied.

Over a quarter of a million people (low guess to save the trouble of tallying) were murdered in this country over those same 23 years. The short list of "Possibly innocent" condemned, pales in comparison to the many prison employees and inmates alike that have been struck down by the life-without-parole inmates.

Also consider the likes of Dawud Mu'Min. This man was serving a 48-year sentence for the 1973 murder of a cab driver when he escaped a road work gang and stabbed to death a storekeeper in a 1988 robbery that netted $4.00. Fortunately, there is no chance of Mu'Min committing murder again. He was executed by the state of Virginia on November 14, 1997.

Or how about Kenneth McDuff. This man was convicted and condemned for fatally shooting two boys and the vicious strangulation and rape of their 16 year old companion in 1966. His sentence was commuted in 1972 to Life-Imprisonment thanks to the Death Penalty moratorium fiasco. He was released in 1989 and soon after allegedly went on a killing spree of innocent victims. He's suspected of killing at least 9 (probably more) woman after his own scheduled date of execution. Fortunately, we won't be hearing from McDuff again either; as of November 17, 1998, thanks to the state of Texas, Kenneth McDuff is no more.

Upon reading the available information; I feel safe in assuming Cory Maye will soon find himself a position on the 100 plus wrongfully condemned that were eventually set free list. As great of a pity as it is that he and his family have had to suffer through this; it does absolutely nothing to change my opinion on the Death Penalty at large. Arguably, literally thousands (not hundreds) of folks and their families have been spared that anguish by the continued use of the death penalty.

Consider the seemingly obvious correlation between Murder-rates and Execution Rates.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9430/deathpenaltygraph22vn.th.jpgClick Graph for larger view.

The frequently demonized state of Texas, who is a leader in State executions also boasts some of the greatest per capita reduction in murders per capita. If (when?) an innocent man like Cory is executed by the State, it will be a crying shame. But no more of a shame than the thousands of innocent people murdered by murderers in this country every year. Of course we should all join forces to save the innocent. But don't confuse that with a justification for saving the guilty. IMHO, no such justification exists. The instinct for self-preservation exists in your average murderer, just as it does in you and I. That's why there's more arrests than shootouts when apprehending these animals. If that weren't the case; why would a murderer drop his weapon and put his hands on his head when ordered to by the brave men in blue leveling his own weapon at him?

Oops, sorry about the digression, again, Fedral.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 01:11 am
Following this logic, there would be just another case of perhaps wrongly executed.

Which could be ignored due to the great advantages executions make Texas: mistakes sometimes happen, but you must see the big picture.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 01:50 am
Mistakes do happen, Walter. Few, if any, in this category in the last 23 years... but anything with a greater than Zero chance of happening, given enough time, will happen. Tens of thousands of people are accidentally killed on our roadways every year. Many are caused by licensees who were mistakenly judged to be competent drivers at the DMV. While none of us wishes to be the victim of one of these errors, the tremendous statistics are nonetheless overlooked for the sake of convenience, let alone the greater good of society. There's virtually no end to the number of potential legal safeguards that could be legislated that would save a greater number of innocents than banning the DP. The infinitesimally small chance of being wrongfully condemned pales in comparison to virtually every other cause of accidental death there is. <shrugs>
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 07:05 am
State execution is a good thing, it teaches the citizens to be afraid of the state. It would be even more effective with more innocent executions.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 07:34 am
dyslexia wrote:
State execution is a good thing, it teaches the citizens to be afraid of the state. It would be even more effective with more innocent executions.
I always doubted your anarcho-liberalist credentials.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 08:47 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
State execution is a good thing, it teaches the citizens to be afraid of the state. It would be even more effective with more innocent executions.
I always doubted your anarcho-liberalist credentials.

because?
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 09:00 am
Bill, let's define 'acceptable collateral damage'. Collateral damage, or the far and few between mistakes are all well and good in a theoretical discussion, but each person who is put to death by the state is a person, not a theory. As a person who, depending on the circumstances, might find my death defined as collateral damage, I move beyond theory and take each case as the killing of a human by the people of that state. Cory is an excellent example. He is not unique. His story has touched many because they can see themselves sucked into a system that doesn't work quite as nicely as we theoretically want it to.

Cases where the system fails cannot be taken as a shrug. Cases where the system fails should be taken with the full force of what they mean. An individual is put to death. No amount of expensive, added safeguards will perfect a system. There will always be some level of collateral damage. The problem here is that the damage is the taking of a human life and it can't be undone, and shouldn't be shrugged away.

From the outset of the decision to proceed with a capital case, the costs are higher to convict and execute an individual than they are to keep one in prison for life. No matter how much more expensive we make the process to limit the mistakes, there will always be those cases where the cracks are too wide and the safety net too weak to catch everything. IMO it isn't worth the risk.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 09:11 am
dyslexia wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
State execution is a good thing, it teaches the citizens to be afraid of the state. It would be even more effective with more innocent executions.
I always doubted your anarcho-liberalist credentials.

because?
Well, I guess the idea of the state executing innocent people as a means of social control didnt sound very liberal to me, but then I dont live in America.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 09:25 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
So, in summary there were 122 mistakes made (all corrected, on that list) along with about a 1,000 completed executions in 23 years.

Or, in other words, about a 12% error rate. That's acceptable?

OCCOM BILL wrote:
On the shorter list of "Executed But Possibly Innocent" are 6 names, no certainty… and an honorary mention of a woman who may have been guilty of murder in a lesser degree, 60 years ago. Not one of these cases was difficult to distinguish from the case at hand. Not one showed a man with no prior convictions; convicted for defending his own home. I understand this is a convenient place to set up your soapbox, Joe, but Cory's case stands out even more for having read the materials you graciously supplied.

I made no claim that Maye's case was typical because he was defending his home. I claimed that it was typical because he was a poor black man with inadequate legal representation, prosecuted and tried by a largely white judicial apparatus, and convicted on false testimony. Re-read that list and see if maybe now you can find a few cases that sound like that situation.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Over a quarter of a million people (low guess to save the trouble of tallying) were murdered in this country over those same 23 years. The short list of "Possibly innocent" condemned, pales in comparison to the many prison employees and inmates alike that have been struck down by the life-without-parole inmates.

Well, I suppose it all depends on how tolerant you are of convicting and executing innocent people.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Also consider the likes of Dawud Mu'Min...

Yes, O'Bill, there are indeed bad people out there.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Upon reading the available information; I feel safe in assuming Cory Maye will soon find himself a position on the 100 plus wrongfully condemned that were eventually set free list. As great of a pity as it is that he and his family have had to suffer through this; it does absolutely nothing to change my opinion on the Death Penalty at large. Arguably, literally thousands (not hundreds) of folks and their families have been spared that anguish by the continued use of the death penalty.

I sincerely doubt that. If capital punishment worked as a deterrent, then there would be no need for capital punishment.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Consider the seemingly obvious correlation between Murder-rates and Execution Rates.

Despite constant reminders, it is clear that people here just don't get it. CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION!

Sometimes I feel as if all my work has been in vain.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
The frequently demonized state of Texas, who is a leader in State executions also boasts some of the greatest per capita reduction in murders per capita. If (when?) an innocent man like Cory is executed by the State, it will be a crying shame.

Your display of concern is underwhelming.

OCCOM BILL wrote:
But no more of a shame than the thousands of innocent people murdered by murderers in this country every year. Of course we should all join forces to save the innocent.

Well, we could save them all by abolishing the death penalty.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 09:27 am
Yeah I heard that Steve, Sometimes I find a postion so ludicrous my only response is to attempt to me even more ludicrous. I may start a thread on Capital Punisment as a means for reducing health care costs, the law would be enacted under the umbrella of alternative funding for transportation pork-barrel red states.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 09:50 am
dyslexia wrote:
Yeah I heard that Steve, Sometimes I find a postion so ludicrous my only response is to attempt to me even more ludicrous. I may start a thread on Capital Punisment as a means for reducing health care costs, the law would be enacted under the umbrella of alternative funding for transportation pork-barrel red states.
Now you are beginning to make sense. And there is a logic here. As you know, people just dont get ill. Its punishment from Above. So that means they did something wrong. And so it makes complete economic and moral sense to punish those sick wrong doers by executing them.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 10:00 am
exactly.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2006 10:07 am
joefromchicago wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Consider the seemingly obvious correlation between Murder-rates and Execution Rates.

Despite constant reminders, it is clear that people here just don't get it. CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION!

Sometimes I feel as if all my work has been in vain.


I think "seemingly" was the right word to choose. I'm no expert, but when I look at that graph, what I see are two similar curves where one(executions) appears shifted to the right by some 10 or more years. In other words, what I see is that increases in murders lead to increases in executions. The shift could easily reflect the period of time it takes to exhaust appeals.
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