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World Population - too high, too low?

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 12:50 pm
A friend of mine was talking about how the world is not overpopulated, and he made an interesting point that I just can't wrap my brain around. He referred to PJ O'Roark's book (I'm not sure how you spell his name, sorry) discussing that if you took all of the people in the world, and spread them out evenly over all of the INHABITABLE land, each person would have 10 acres.

That sounded like a lot, until I thought of how much land you need to do crop rotation, raise livestock, cut trees for a house. Than I wondered if there would be enough land for factory type places to make clothes, cars, etc - things for our homes. You see where I'm going with this.

I also thought about how in our world right now, if everyone decided to eat healthy, and avoid processed foods - eating more meat and veggies, there probably wouldn't be enough food to go around.

I'd love to hear YOUR (anyone) thoughts about this, because I haven't been thinking on this very long, and I realise that I may be missing some things. SO please, let me hear what you think.

Smile
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,743 • Replies: 20
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 09:25 pm
http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speeches/complexity/complexity.html
0 Replies
 
Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 07:11 am
I think our population is too high now, and I am reluctant to consider the amount of people on this Earth by the time of my death.

My own solution to this, as little of a difference as it makes, is adoption. I refuse to have biological children - there is no need to bring more children into this world when 1. we are bursting at the seams as it is and 2. there are thousands of children that are already starving, dying, uncared for . Have you heart of VHEMT? I'm a strong advocate.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 07:43 am
Unfortunatly, we can't spread people around the world so each person get 10 arcres. In addition, what is the condition of the 10 acres you would get?
Not all land is farmable (if that's a word) and now your talking about distribution. Would all the people live on the hard bits and middle of the desert, and have food shipped to them.

Some areas of the world are overpopulated, and some underpopulated.

Take Italy for example. Without looking up specific figures right now, their population is way down, and most grow is through emmigration.

On the other had, take some area of Africa, Inda, Mexico, etc.

Now China, with its "one child policy"....human rights violation at its finest. Promoting infantcide and forced abortions. I once watched a documentary about Chinas "death rooms" it will haunt me until the day I die. A baby is left in a room, and checked on once in a while to see if she is dead yet (almost always female).

The documentors found one of these children, still alive, too late to save. A baby that looked up with begging dry eyes that didn't look much human, until she opened her mouth and a weak croaked babys cry came out. Then and now I cannot control my emotions. I'll never be able to erase that from my mind. And it's happening right now, this very second.

That is what the one child policy results in

So, in answer to the question, over/under.....depends.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 08:38 am
World population -8 billion, today- will keep growing until around 2030, when we'll be 10 billion, and will thereon diminish slowly, according to several demographic studies.

We are too many already, and it will be a huge challenge for today's younger generations to administer the resources of the world with 10 billion human beings.

I must add that, at this moment, almost all the population growth is from Third World Countries. The migration impulses to rich nations will be only bigger in the next few decades.
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 12:19 pm
Quote:
Did you Know?

The whole world's population could fit in the state of Texas


The overpopulation scare has been around for awile now and seems to simply get updated every few years when the timeline of the worlds demise does not come true. There is a number where we will have to many people for the earth to sustain, but I don't think we are anywhere near it right now.
0 Replies
 
HickoryStick
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 08:27 pm
Just because people can fit in a certain area, is there enough land and resourses to fully support the population and its needs of survival (and comfort).

What about waste, pollution to make our "stuff", land to raise food (enough land to have crop rotation).

I thought it was only 6.5 billion.

All very interesting.
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 08:40 am
If everyone on earth can fit in texas with relative comfort, I think it would be safe to assume that the rest of the earth would be large enough to be able to sustain us and a whole lot more.

Of course not all of that land is farmable, but just think of the vastness and richness of the North America alone which is 9,355,000 square miles (9,355,000 - 262,000 for Texas = 9,093,000 square miles). North America is only the 3rd largest continent. Asia is 17,226,000 square miles and Africa is 11,700,000 square miles. Combined that is 38,019,000 square miles of land.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 10:16 am
bookmarking (the world is not overpopulated)
0 Replies
 
HickoryStick
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 03:34 pm
Its not about how many people FIT on the planet, its about resources and waste management.... in my humble opinion.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 08:05 pm
I think what's really at issue is not "overpopulation" but, rather, the mismanagement of the world's resources. "Overpopulation" is a misdiagnosis. It's a popular myth because it focuses attention away from the actual solution, which would require us all to live a bit more responsibly than we're used to.
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:47 am
HickoryStick wrote:
Its not about how many people FIT on the planet, its about resources and waste management.... in my humble opinion.


HickoryStick,

What I said was that if everyone on the planet could live in relative comfort in an area the size of Texas, that THE REST OF THE EARTH is available for resources. That is a lot of land and a lot of resources. The government pays people NOT to farm because our potential for food growth is larger than the food we could consume.

People have been claiming for years that we are about to run out of food/space/oil/oxygen/water/resources and it has never even come close to coming true. What exactly are you worried about running out of and do you actually have any evidence to support your claim?
0 Replies
 
HickoryStick
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 09:07 am
I'm not suspecting that we're going to run out of food, but I've read a lot about mineral depletion of the soil in which we're farming.

I also read a recent article on foxnews or cnn, I can't remember which, that stated that if we wanted to bring the rest of the world up to speed with the US, technologically, there isn't enough copper left.

Just food for thought. I mean, it doesn't matter if the world is or isn't overpopulated - if it is overpopulated, things will thin out naturally. People can't live on processed food forever.

I hope this isn't offensive to anyone. That wasn't my intention in this thread.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 09:38 am
Good Lord! I don't want everyone moving to Texas!

EEEHH EEEHH EEEHH Bad Idea Bad Idea

Mopac & IH35 are crowded enough!

I'd have to leave yesterday every day to get to work today.
0 Replies
 
zhy5735053
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2006 05:15 am
China's policy of one child
Chai Tea wrote:
Unfortunatly, we can't spread people around the world so each person get 10 arcres. In addition, what is the condition of the 10 acres you would get?
Not all land is farmable (if that's a word) and now your talking about distribution. Would all the people live on the hard bits and middle of the desert, and have food shipped to them.

Some areas of the world are overpopulated, and some underpopulated.

Take Italy for example. Without looking up specific figures right now, their population is way down, and most grow is through emmigration.

On the other had, take some area of Africa, Inda, Mexico, etc.

Now China, with its "one child policy"....human rights violation at its finest. Promoting infantcide and forced abortions. I once watched a documentary about Chinas "death rooms" it will haunt me until the day I die. A baby is left in a room, and checked on once in a while to see if she is dead yet (almost always female).

The documentors found one of these children, still alive, too late to save. A baby that looked up with begging dry eyes that didn't look much human, until she opened her mouth and a weak croaked babys cry came out. Then and now I cannot control my emotions. I'll never be able to erase that from my mind. And it's happening right now, this very second.

That is what the one child policy results in

So, in answer to the question, over/under.....depends.



I just want to express my own opinions without any aggressive meaning.
I don't know which documentary have you read before, but, by the way, you can tell me the name of the documentary. Of course, China is facing some domestic problems, such as overpopulation, the policy was made according to China's own situation, I'm sure that most of Chinese can understand the policy, it's really a problem with a larger population as time goes by. What the world will be if there are too many people around you, even no more room for you to turn. It is terrible. and there are still many reasons for China too make the policy. You, esp. some bad mans, always take the opportunity of abortion or something like that to attack our human rights, to critisize our human rights. It is all nonsense. Each country has its own culture and its own situation. You cannot always see us in your own way. You had better change you mind, think about the situation that we faced, are facing, and will face, then everthing will be OK.
0 Replies
 
zhy5735053
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2006 05:23 am
China's policy of one child
Chai Tea wrote:
Unfortunatly, we can't spread people around the world so each person get 10 arcres. In addition, what is the condition of the 10 acres you would get?
Not all land is farmable (if that's a word) and now your talking about distribution. Would all the people live on the hard bits and middle of the desert, and have food shipped to them.

Some areas of the world are overpopulated, and some underpopulated.

Take Italy for example. Without looking up specific figures right now, their population is way down, and most grow is through emmigration.

On the other had, take some area of Africa, Inda, Mexico, etc.

Now China, with its "one child policy"....human rights violation at its finest. Promoting infantcide and forced abortions. I once watched a documentary about Chinas "death rooms" it will haunt me until the day I die. A baby is left in a room, and checked on once in a while to see if she is dead yet (almost always female).

The documentors found one of these children, still alive, too late to save. A baby that looked up with begging dry eyes that didn't look much human, until she opened her mouth and a weak croaked babys cry came out. Then and now I cannot control my emotions. I'll never be able to erase that from my mind. And it's happening right now, this very second.

That is what the one child policy results in

So, in answer to the question, over/under.....depends.



I just want to express my own opinions without any aggressive meanings.
I don't know which documentary have you read before, but, by the way, can you tell me the name of the documentary? Of course, China is facing some domestic problems, such as overpopulation, the policy was made according to China's own situation, I'm sure that most of Chinese can understand the policy, it's really a problem with a larger population as time goes by. What the world will be if there are too many people around you, even no more room for you to turn. It is terrible. and there are still many reasons for China to make the policy. You, esp. some bad mans, always take the opportunity of abortion or something like that to attack our human rights, to critisize our human rights. It is all nonsense. Each country has its own culture and its own situation. You cannot always see us in your own way. And Great changes have taken place in China since her reform and opening up in 1978. If you can come to China and stay for some years, I am sure you will change your some improper(if it is right)opinions about China. I have to say that many of westerners misunderstood China, because what they knew, what they have heard were the passed years, maybe 100 years. However 100 years have passed, we cannot stay that level, human being should advance as time goes on. Keep pace with times, or you will fall behind the times. You had better change your mind, think about the situation that we have faced, are facing, and will face, then everthing will be OK.
0 Replies
 
HickoryStick
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2006 05:21 am
Good point, zhy.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2006 07:33 am
Re: China's policy of one child
zhy5735053 wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:
Unfortunatly, we can't spread people around the world so each person get 10 arcres. In addition, what is the condition of the 10 acres you would get?
Not all land is farmable (if that's a word) and now your talking about distribution. Would all the people live on the hard bits and middle of the desert, and have food shipped to them.

Some areas of the world are overpopulated, and some underpopulated.

Take Italy for example. Without looking up specific figures right now, their population is way down, and most grow is through emmigration.

On the other had, take some area of Africa, Inda, Mexico, etc.

Now China, with its "one child policy"....human rights violation at its finest. Promoting infantcide and forced abortions. I once watched a documentary about Chinas "death rooms" it will haunt me until the day I die. A baby is left in a room, and checked on once in a while to see if she is dead yet (almost always female).

The documentors found one of these children, still alive, too late to save. A baby that looked up with begging dry eyes that didn't look much human, until she opened her mouth and a weak croaked babys cry came out. Then and now I cannot control my emotions. I'll never be able to erase that from my mind. And it's happening right now, this very second.

That is what the one child policy results in

So, in answer to the question, over/under.....depends.



I just want to express my own opinions without any aggressive meaning.
I don't know which documentary have you read before, but, by the way, you can tell me the name of the documentary. Of course, China is facing some domestic problems, such as overpopulation, the policy was made according to China's own situation, I'm sure that most of Chinese can understand the policy, it's really a problem with a larger population as time goes by. What the world will be if there are too many people around you, even no more room for you to turn. It is terrible. and there are still many reasons for China too make the policy. You, esp. some bad mans, always take the opportunity of abortion or something like that to attack our human rights, to critisize our human rights. It is all nonsense. Each country has its own culture and its own situation. You cannot always see us in your own way. You had better change you mind, think about the situation that we faced, are facing, and will face, then everthing will be OK.


Where are you from Z?

You don't say, and I won't assume.

From all sources I have read and watched, the single child policy is vastly unpopular amongest the people in China.

For the most recent reference I can site...go to npr.org

about 2 weeks ago was a long segment from China, by the Chinise expressing their unhappiness. I cannot guarantee that particular story is still ative, you may have to look in their archives. In it, one of the familys interviewed we discribing how their daughter was forcible removed from her home, and forced to have an abortion.

The documentary, which I watched perhaps up to 5 years ago...I cannot remember it's name. It was on television. It was not a sensationalist show. It showed very clearly small children in orphanages, dozens of them, tied to chairs, banging their heads against wooden braces provided to keep them from standing up, causing oozing sores. They were sitting in chairs with the bottoms cut out, fecal matter from obviously several days piled under them. These children began life as totally healthy human beings, and they were brought to this end, half dead physically, totally dead spiritually.

You speak of cultural differences.....China does not have a culture that does not love it's children.

This reminds me of a song of Sting, entitled "I hope the Russians love their Children Too." The subject matter of the song is completely different from what we are discussing here....but it does bring up the point that no matter what culture a person is from....they love their children.

If you are interested....google the terms 'china dying rooms' or 'china one child policy'

You will come up with plenty of information.

Just for the record.....Z.....are you in favor of this one child policy? If so, why? Also, address the question of forced abortions and dying rooms, which is not a lie, as I have seen it with my own eyes.

I am not discussing abortion per se here, that is an individuals choice, and it's not what this thread is about. I am addressing the fact that women who do not want this procedure are being forced to have it, and unwanted children are dying horrible deaths.

Surely China can come up with an alternative to this. It is not what the people want. They love their children too.

Hickory, you in particular, look this stuff up, it's a real eye opener. I can tell you're a seeker, like me. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this after studying.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2006 07:45 am
HickoryStick wrote:
World Population - too high, too low?

Too high or too low for what?

In my opinion, the world could feed ten times as many people as we have, or it could feed ten times fewer people than we have. Hence, the size of the world's population ranks very low at my list of worries.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2006 08:00 am
HickoryStick wrote:
I also read a recent article on foxnews or cnn, I can't remember which, that stated that if we wanted to bring the rest of the world up to speed with the US, technologically, there isn't enough copper left.

Maybe that's why the Chinese government relies heavily on glass fibers today as it connects the Chinese electronically. Glass fibers are in many ways technically superior to the legacy copper cable we have in the ground in Europe and America. Also, they are ultimately made out of sand, which is ubiquitous, unlike copper. I'm sure there are alternatives to copper for power lines too, but I'm not familiar with the field so can't name them.

More generally, predictions have tended to have a dismal record when they took the form `As a by-product of our technical progress, the world is running out of X'. The standard reference is Julian Simon: The Ultimate Resource. Princeton University Press (1980) I recommend the first edition (1980) over the second (1997) precisely because it's older. Over the past 26 years, enough data has accumulated to test both Simon's theories and his opponents. The test of time confirms Simon almost completely, while it devastates those who predicted the world was going to run out of stuff.
0 Replies
 
 

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