Individuality vs Compromise

Money is perhaps the largest area of argument between married couples. Children are second, or maybe money is second, but I think you get the idea. Money is a big, big deal.

I find this to be an interesting phrase from you:

I'm going out on a limb here and I'm gonna assume that you don't have a balance anywhere near this. So in some ways, if you are saying this, you may have set up this situation, e. g. telling your wife you won't go nuts until you hit a particular balance, but then going nuts anyway, even before you hit that balance. And, to top it all off, it's a fairly unattainable balance for most. Hence it sets up both of you into a conflict situation.

A convertible, actually, I have to say, I come down a lot closer to your wife's side of things than yours. To spend more for better quality is one thing, and if she is going for super-duper cheap items that wear out anyway, it is no bargain and she's not helping matters. An extra few bucks on clothes can make a real difference in fit, ease of care and durability. The $3 tee shirt bin is generally going to be garbage -- but at the same time, spending $30 on a cotton tee shirt is silly.

As for the convertible, cars depreciate significantly in value as you drive them off the showroom floor, just after you've handed the sales guy your check. And, let's be honest here -- a convertible is a man's toy. It has little for her, when you really get down to brass tacks. She might enjoy it, a bit, but it will do neither of you any good when buying groceries, driving friends around (the back seats in those are notoriously tiny) or doing pretty much anything. Plus gas mileage tends to stink and gas is through the roof these days. Oh, and insuring a sports-type vehicle or an easily-stolen vehicle is expensive, particularly for a young male being the primary driver.

Car payments now also mean that they will only do your credit rating good if you pay them off on time. If you don't, then you can find yourself with a lousy credit rating. You don't say what your living situation is, but if you do not yet own a home or condo, you really should think long and hard about expenses. Real estate is a major investment, but it's a good one. Before we bought our house, we gave up, let's see, about $60,000 in rent, and this was over 10 years ago. That money is never, ever coming back, and it would be awfully nice if we could have had it for mortgage payments or repairs or the like.

All of that having been said, enjoyment should be budgeted for, too. Everyone needs a vacation. The problem, I see it, is when you (or anyone else, I'm not picking on you in particular, please don't read this that way) overspend and take out a loan for fun stuff. Or it racks up credit card debt. And then you turn around and realize that you're paying interest on a loan for a car that you traded in long ago, or on a vacation that happened ages ago and wasn't that memorable.

This does not sound like a question about compromise. It sounds a lot more like a question about whose money obsession is better. Neither is. But what marriage is about is doing your best to see another's side of things. Why is she pinching pennies like this? Did she come out of awful poverty? Is she afraid you'll lose your job? Are her fears justified? And you, why do you really want the toy (my uncle had one, he called it the "chippie chaser")? Is it to look like a big man? To feel luxury? I have a car with a sun roof and I've had one with a sun roof since 1998. I like them and don't want to have a car without one. But it's also in a budget vehicle. A true convertible isn't sold these days unless it's in some sort of an ocean liner of a car. So is it the car you want, or just the roof? You may be able to bend if it's just the roof you want (trust me, a sun roof is perfectly fine and a lot less likely to leak than a true ragtop).

What's your motivation? What's hers? Those are the questions you should be asking.

Peter Pan doesn't want to grow up. He dreams about remaining a child (at heart), playing, and disregarding grown up responsibilities. So long as the burden is placed on someone else's shoulders to be financially responsible, then Peter Pan doesn't have to be the responsible one. How wonderful and how naive! He may adhere to his playful attitude about spending money on fun and making frivolous purchases so long as the person who has assumed the responsible role says "NO."


I think, however, if Peter Pan's wife suddenly started to spend money frivolously and the money wasn't there anymore to pay bills or retire debt in a timely manner--someone (perhaps Peter Pan?) would have to step up to the plate and be responsible. Unfortunately, the one who assumes the responsible role seems much more like a parental figure than a spouse. Wouldn't it be much better to have two adults in a relationship rather than a wannabe child and a parental figure?

whoo!
Debra Law...harsh words. Sound like you've been with a man like him before and left dissatisfied!
Anyway, I know I have been like this writer in past relationships. It does sound like you want a mother and not necessarily a wife. Good luck. This marriage sounds like it could be in trouble!

Kudlaite--

Pick a time convenient for you both and have the first of some long dispassionate discussions about Money.

"Ours" is a very complicated word--the devil is in the details.

Interesting replies. OK first, I am not going to buy a convertible. I only meant it as an example. Second, I don't plan to blow away my money. I didn't get it in my inheritence. I earn it by working 14 hours a day. But what I like to do is to enjoy some of what I earn.

If you think about it, there is no way someone can say I am right and my wife is wrong. Its similar to justifying eating meat. You are killing and eating an animal. Period. No explanation will justify that. So if I like to spend some money and my wife likes to save it, of course I'll be labelled Peter Pan. So what does that mean... we don't eat meat ? We don't drink ? Isnt liquor the ultimate waste of money ? Isnt meat the ultimate waste of money ? Meat is not really something we cannot survive without. No single thing is really.
My point is, at some point you need to see what makes you happy. My philosophy is, don't overdo anything. But if you enjoy a glass on wine on friday nights, then go for it.

The reason I like budgeting is two-fold. I budget 1% of my salary right now. First, I know I won't spend more than that. Second, and more importantly, I won't feel guilty at the loss of each penny. In fact, I realized I don't even end up spending the entire 1%. Its a case of not wanting what you have. :-). I end up donating the rest of the 1% to some charity. It makes me happy.

I know this really sounds childish (I'm 31) and Peter Pannish. But hey, I am happy and I make people around me happy. My wife and me were brought up in very similar middle class backgrounds. We are relatively a lot more comfortable with 6 figures salaries each. The thing is, I like simple things like going to the movies, eating out. I really don't care if I don't own a huge house by the lake or if my linen are 600 count and not 1200. She likes all those things. In fact we bought a 5-bedroom house, which according to me is just too big for us.

So it really comes down to what we want I guess ? If I start believing in what she believes, or the other way around, where's the individuality ?
Anyway, that was the real question of this topic. I only used myself as an example.

You guys make enough money that this shouldn't even be a topic for discussion. After paying the basic bills, divide up the remainder. Go, spend your money the way you like, and let her do the same. If you want to spend yours on luxury car payments or charitable causes, do it. If she wants to spend it on 1200 thread count sheets, fine.

My husband and I (happily married 20+ years) have some similar interests, some different interests.

People change and grow after marriage, the same as before. You shouldn't expect each other to remain the same. The key is ALLOWING each other to grow and giving each other the space and respect you need.

Eva, that was a good answer. 20 years.. congratulations. My parents have been together for 33 years now. And they couldn't be any more different from each other. What you said is really the key. To give each other space and not judge his/her actions against one's own beliefs.
Really, we both spend, but just on different things. The only difference is, I know how much I want to spend and don't feel bad about it.
But I liked your comment "You shouldn't expect each other to remain the same". So true. Also, one shouldn't expect the other to change completely to match one's beliefs. Like I always tell my wife, if I did everything like you want me to, then there would be two of you in the house.

I'm a firm believer in "he money, she money, and we money". Most of the income should be "we money", but each of you should get a certain amount that is yours to do with as you wish. How much you should each get depends on how much you have left over after paying the bills and socking some away in shared accounts/investments. Depending on your incomes, it might be $50/month or $100/week for you to save or blow as you choose - no questions asked. If your wife chooses to save hers under the mattress or in her sock drawer (or in a separate bank account) and you choose to buy comic books or increase your car payment beyond what the budget will support, then so be it.

As long as your incomes can pay the bills, you should agree to set aside a certain amount for the future and then give yourselves each an allowance.

Thank you, kudlaite! J_B and I agree...you each need to have the freedom to spend some money without consulting the other.

Don't argue about your differences, celebrate them! For instance, I absolutely hate fishing and camping, but my husband loves it. So I encourage him to go. I buy him gift certificates from outdoor stores for presents. I just want him to enjoy himself as much as possible.

I can't believe you two live in Austin, making more than $200,000 per year combined and don't have $200K invested.

The median income in this city is $35,000 per/annum approx.

Even if you had the maximum amount of taxes taken out of your pay, 25% of your salaries would equal at least a $3,000 mortgage.

I think you're spending a whole lot more than 1% of your salary on yourself to not have a significant amount put away. Sounds like your spending yours and hers too.

I know what it costs to live here. You're not telling the whole storey.

BTW, 40 is not the end of your life. A convertible feels just as good at 50 or 60.

If this is a truely accurate statement than I'm glad you are happy but I suspect that you aren't being honest here.

If, as you say, you have a 6-figure salary, 1% still isn't very much. If you make the minimum 6-figures ($100K/year) 1% comes out to $1000/year. Divide that by 26 pay periods and you are spending $38 and some change every 2 weeks?? And you still have extra to donate to charity?? Most people would blow through $38 in 2 weeks without even blinking. (All of these numbers are pre-tax too so 1% of net would be even less.)

That being said, the first thing a couple had to do to avoid money conflicts is be honest with themselves and each other about how much money there is and where it's going.

I know I'm out on a limb here but you've thrown around several numbers here that don't pass the reality test. If you aren't being realistic then there is going to be conflict.

Prolly doesn't even live in austin.

more like buda or seguin.

something was fishy!
The thing that turns me off about this writer was when he responded to an earlier responder by saying, good answer. If you are here to judge responses to your perplexed situation and have already decided what is deemed good and what is not, then in my eyes you shouldn't have even posted this. You are wasting your time and ours because you already know it all oh mighty judge earner of six figures who donates money!!! LOL... anyway, it's my opinion if you make a post to be open minded to the responses and you may not agree but put some thought into what is said. Its all a difference in perception which you already seem to have with your wife. It makes me wonder if you tell her when she's good and bad and are judging her in this same manner because you have already made up your mind in your own personal rule book to life!

I don't know what this guy's deal was maddy.

Like fishin said, his numbers just didn't add up.

His mouth was going faster than his brain and he thought we were just going along.

Waste time!?

That's what I'm here for!

Welcome to A2K by the way.

I guess you can tell I'm one of your straight shooters.

Oops... looks like I really upset some of of you here. Sorry, I didn't mean to. Let me answer...

Chai Tea & fishin': I read my responses again and saw that you had good reason to think about me the way you do. I should say, thank you for your postings. Nevertheless, I do budget only $100 for myself. By myself, I mean clothing, maybe gift for a colleague etc. If I end up not buying any clothes that month, or just end up being totally busy at work, then I just send off the remaining to some charity org, or KUT, places like that. And yes, I do live in Austin.

Maddendominata: I can appreciate a nasty posting like Chai's, cos she makes good points and makes a lot of sense. In fact, posting such as that really made me re-read my postings and about what my opinions on things were. But yours... you call me judgemental. And your posting is not ? "oh mighty judge earner of six figures who donates money" ???? Am I supposed to be ashamed of earning it ? You have no idea how I was brought up and how I worked my way here. My request to you is, if you want to be nasty, please do so. But atleast stick to the topic of discussion.

In any case, I will stop responding to this thread since I didn't mean this to be a discussion about my personal life. I was just curious to see what others think about the complicated nature of married life and the eternal question about how much one should blend into a marriage while maintaining our own individual characteristics. Like I said earlier, I only used myself as an example. My apologies if I offended anyone.

By $100, I meant $100 a month.

I didn't say you didn't live in Austin, I said I didn't believe you live in Austin and the two of you rack in over $200K a year, and don't have a bunch of bucks in the back.

Nasty Chai....Yeah, that's what people call me when I call them on their BS.

$100 a month? Big deal.

At maxium tax rate with a minimum of $200K a year, you have after tax income of almost $11K a month.

Let's say 3K for housing
1K for electric gas cable phone bills
1K for car expense
1K for food and clothes.
Being ridiculously generous with the 3 of the above

Give me a break. You've got a minimum of $5K a month for credit card debt and all else.

Considering you're not paying the maximum income tax and probably don't spend that much for cars and food....you connect the dots.

Let's get specific here...you're initial post was about different spending habits and the fact your wife apparantly wants you to save more.

What the hell are you spending that money on?

Oh, and I'm sure KUT is just thrilled with your leftovers from $100 a month. What's that add up to $7.00?

Get real. There's a lot more going on here.