The shameful Australian practice of live sheep trade.

dlowan wrote:

Leaving aside your ridiculously uncouth manner, Echi, I assume your ACTUAL argument is that animals ought not to be killed.

So...fine, but this thread is about cruel treatment of animals which ARE going to be killed.

If you do not wish to discuss that, fine.

Well, I am discussing it... just not in the way that you want me to. I am simply pointing out what I see as inconsistent reasoning. The quotes given by Amigo support my point of view, so why are his ideas accepted but mine are not? Oh, yeah. It's my "ridiculously uncouth manner", I guess. Uh... Sorry about that. I am not trying to be rude. (Well, I'm not trying hard.)

You aren't really discussing it...you just keep making the same point over and over.......we all got it way back.

dlowan wrote:

You aren't really discussing it...you just keep making the same point over and over.......we all got it way back.

I don't think you did. But that is my fault, not anyone else's.
Of course I want all creatures to experience as little suffering as possible. But how are we to convince people to respect animals that are being led to slaughter?
We say: Hey. You should treat that animal with respect.
They say: This animal? Oh, but I'm fixin' to kill this animal.
We say: ??? (What can we say.)
If we oppose killing animals then why not stick with that position? Would you still be so eager to compromise if these were humans instead of sheep?

Maybe this was discussed but why cant the Imams be prepared to slaughter the sheep in Australia and merely ship the carcasses to their destination. OR have Imams on board and begin slaughter as the ship leaves dock?

The Muslims have a butchery ceremony that doesnt allow stunning (simi9lar to Jewish rabbis killing chickens).

Its amazing how, two cultures who hate each others guts , share almost the same ceremonies and procedures.

And still the live sheep trade continues!
Shame, Australia, shame! :

Australia faces hypocrisy charge over live exports
Lorna Edwards
February 13, 2008/the AGE


Live exports are worth $1 billion.
Photo: Phillip Biggs

ANIMAL welfare agencies have accused the Rudd Government of hypocrisy in opposing Japanese whaling while supporting live animal exports, as Australia became the target of a new global campaign against the trade.

An alliance of 900 animal welfare agencies in 147 countries has set its sights on Australia as the largest live animal exporter in a three-year campaign launched this week by the World Society for the Protection of Animals in Australia, Europe and North America.

The Australian spokesman for the Handle With Care alliance, RSPCA president Hugh Wirth, said Australia was considered a cruel country internationally and the campaign could lead to consumer boycotts of Australian meat products in Europe and North America.

"The live export industry in Australia say they are following world's best practice, which is exactly what the Japanese are saying about whaling," Dr Wirth said.

The global campaign targeted both road and sea transport of animals and calls for the live trade to be replaced with the export of chilled meats.

In 2006, Australia exported 4 million live sheep to the Middle East with 36,000 dying in transit.

"We are launching this campaign globally … to ask the Australian Government in particular to bring an end to the cruel live export trade of sheep to the Middle East," said WSPA's director-general, Peter Davies, from the United Kingdom.

A spokesman for the industry, LiveCorp chief Cameron Hall, said he was disappointed by the campaign but defended Australia's presence in the Middle East markets through live exports as a catalyst for improving animal welfare standards in the region through training.

Minister for Agriculture Tony Burke has staunchly defended the $1 billion trade and said the Government would work with industry to improve animal welfare conditions in the Middle East.

But the RSPCA and Animals Australia said that this stance was at odds with the Government's opposition to Japanese whaling.

"We cannot condemn these terrible animal atrocities perpetuated by other nations when we are the world leader in this horrendous trade in animals," Animals Australia investigator Lyn White said.

After obtaining footage of ongoing abuses of Australian animals exported to the Middle East in December, Ms White said there was little evidence of improved conditions despite the training efforts made by Australia.

"Australia cannot separate itself from the suffering of these animals in the Middle East," she said.

But Mr Hall said halting Australia's live exports would do nothing to slow the trade because live animals would be obtained from other countries in North Africa, Asia and South America, which had less concern about animal welfare.

The WSPA-led campaign against live exports follows its three-year international campaign against whaling.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/australia-faces-hypocrisy-charge-over-live-exports/2008/02/12/1202760306649.html

Doco reveals Australian cattle tortured overseas
By Anne Worthington for Four Corners
Updated 42 minutes ago

Animals Australia filmed in 11 randomly chosen abattoirs in Indonesia and provided the footage to Four Corners (ABC TV)

Horrific footage from inside Indonesian abattoirs that use Australian cattle has revealed abuse of the animals is widespread.

Footage to be aired on ABC1's Four Corners tonight shows animals kicked, thrashed and beaten, their throats hacked at, eyes gouged and tails broken.

According to analysis of the footage by RSPCA chief scientist Bidda Jones, some animals show signs of consciousness when they are dismembered.

In March this year, animal welfare campaigners Animals Australia filmed in 11 randomly chosen abattoirs in Indonesia and provided the footage to Four Corners.

More than a month later, a Four Corners team went to Indonesia and filmed in abattoirs where cattle suffered prolonged and painful deaths.

Animals Australia spokeswoman Lyn White brought Egypt's live export trade to a halt in 2006 after exposing animal cruelty in Cairo.

She says her suspicions were raised after the live export industry released a report in January describing animal welfare in Indonesia as generally good.

"We had assumed that because there were greater level of industry involvement in Indonesia, the treatment of the livestock would have been better," she said.

"But we couldn't have been more wrong." ....<cont>

Live cattle exports to 11 Indonesian abattoirs investigated by the ABC's Four Corners program will be suspended, Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig has confirmed.

Senator Ludwig told Labor Caucus of the decision as anger mounted over the scenes of mistreatment exposed on last night's program.

He said he was establishing an independent review to look at the whole supply chain of Australian cattle exports to Indonesia, and reserved the right to add more abattoirs to the list of banned facilities.

When this thread waas first opened it appeared that the data was several years old(like 10). Are these live "tight pack" shipments still going on?

When this thread waas first opened it appeared that the data was several years old(like 10). Are these live "tight pack" shipments still going on?. Besides being inhumane, they are terribly inneficient because the loss of girth and "thriftiness" of animals crammed in a hold for several weeks makes their value decerase heavily.
I still dont understand why the Muslims dont send Imams to slaughter in Australia and the carcasses are then prepared for "sanctified" travel for the faithful to purschase at the point of destination. By doing so, the Jews and Greeks will require that the animals be slaughtered in the ritual fashion by an observant, then they are trussed and de-feathered and the head is left on the carcass with the fur still on and the evidence of the ritual slaughter still there.
Jews d it, Greeks do it,

The guys who buy lambs from us, often send substitute "butchers " to kill and truss the animals for the trip to the big city.

I definately agree that the inhumane treatment is unconscionable. How the religion allows suffering of the poor animals for some rite to be observed is stupid especially since there are ways to accomodate religion , humane teratment,and good economics