The shameful Australian practice of live sheep trade.

I'll download that & have a peak tomorrow, Amigo. Momma mia, I've just discovered it's 12:50! Work tomorrow! Shocked

What on earth am I thinking? Bed, msolga! Now!

Night night, Amigo!

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We sell most of our lambs as live animals to ethnic markets. Our customers come and buy 2 or 3 lambs at a time and take them home to butcher in their cutomary fashion (similar to kosher, where the ritual slaughter must be done by a practising Muslim) Its a passage to manhood for many of the Muslim boys. They become part o the religion by first involving themselves with a lamb slaughter.

The lambs we sell to resaurants will be selected by rolling abbatoirs who come to our frm with refrigerated slaughter trucks from Philly markets. They will take maybe 40 or 50 lambs at a time and slaughter and hang them in the semis reefer end. Then they travel back and peddle to the restaurants.(They take all the lamb and pack the innards for pet foods and "kidneys" for the taste challenged UKers
We command a premium for the fresh "off the farm" lambs because the auctions average prices have been not better than 1.30 lb live weight.
Our auction houses still ship the lambs back to market centers like NY in these tri level semis that can fit over 250 lambs in a load. There are vets at the auction houses that are required by law to inspect the lamb shipping practices and they often make a shipper split up a load ,eg,If they buy a load of Grace Suffolks (which are a very big breed) they can maybe only fit 190 in a load , otherwise the lambs are all compacted and in contact with the sides of the carrier which can cause severe frostbite in winter .

Ive seen one of those ships land n Nigeria and its awful how the sheep are packed in so that , for the most part, theyve been kept standing in one spot the entire 2 or 3 week voyage. Then they are mustered using electric cattle prods, which dont usually work on sheep, it only terrifies them. When I sw the ship in Nigeria I counted over 100 dead sheep and they said it was a good trip. Hell, that would be about 1/3 our lamb crop.

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Ack!

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The practice of slaughtering the poor darlin's on the farm they come from strikes me as the most decent and reasonable thing to do.

Watching them packed terrified and lost in trucks going to an abbatoir, and knowing they will be subjected to terrible fear as they wait their turn, smelling the blood and terror of their fellows, has distressed me so much that I will not eat meat from mammals so handled any more...haven't for years.

IF I eat any such animal, I buy free range and home slaughtered.

But that is a luxury, I know.

The thought of those terrible sea voyages, where their suffering is extended, sometimes, when stupid human politics decree games will be played, for months, is abhorrent.

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farmerman wrote:

We sell most of our lambs as live animals to ethnic markets. Our customers come and buy 2 or 3 lambs at a time and take them home to butcher in their cutomary fashion (similar to kosher, where the ritual slaughter must be done by a practising Muslim) Its a passage to manhood for many of the Muslim boys. They become part o the religion by first involving themselves with a lamb slaughter.

Now that's something that's perplexed me for quite a while, farmerman. That a boys-to-men religious ritual could involve learning to accommodate killing harmless, captive animals in such circumstances. What this has to do with religion I honestly don't understand. This seems to me to be more of a cultural "initiation" thing.
But I digress .... ..
And of course, I'm not asking you to explain such practices. I'm just thinking out loud here ....

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Its primal bullsh!t is what it is. It makes them FEEL like a man but it doesn't make them a man. If you really want show your a man, Fight a bear.

Of course I still believe in freedom of religion. This is just my opinion.

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dlowan wrote:

The practice of slaughtering the poor darlin's on the farm they come from strikes me as the most decent and reasonable thing to do.

Watching them packed terrified and lost in trucks going to an abbatoir, and knowing they will be subjected to terrible fear as they wait their turn, smelling the blood and terror of their fellows, has distressed me so much that I will not eat meat from mammals so handled any more...haven't for years.

IF I eat any such animal, I buy free range and home slaughtered.

But that is a luxury, I know.

The thought of those terrible sea voyages, where their suffering is extended, sometimes, when stupid human politics decree games will be played, for months, is abhorrent.

I guess the bottom line, then, is that we have control over how how these poor creatures live their short lives & then meet their end. They are not just material for profit, to be used in any which way suits current market needs.

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Amigo wrote:

Its primal bullsh!t is what it is. It makes them FEEL like a man but it doesn't make them a man. If you really want show your a man, Fight a bear.

Of course I still believe in freedom of religion. This is just my opinion.

Amigo, I certainly can't see what relevance such rituals could possibly have in most societies in the 21st century. And, as I said, I can't see how such practices could possibly make anyone more "religious".

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I guess its just not our place to tell people what too beleive.

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Amigo wrote:

I guess its just not our place to tell people what too beleive.

But it is definitely our place to state what we believe is right in our own society, Amigo. And how animals we are responsible for should be allowed to be treated. (Me, I'm seriously wondering if returning to complete vegetarianism is the way to go. I dunno, honestly.)

(Hey, I downloaded your video just now, but can't play it! I now have a bunch of Google (?) videos downloaded, but can't find yours! Let's face it, I'm a Luddite! Embarrassed

Probably done 50+ things wrong! Stoopid! But, never say I didn't try, dammit!)

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But it IS our place to argue like hell with them about it!

Killing as part of male coming of age is a common thing.

I guess this the slamic thing today is a reasonably benign form of it....and the animal is often then donated to the poor, or eaten by the family.

I think those of us who eat dead animals ought to have a sense of what it all means, so I am ambivalent about this.

I guess as long as the young butcher is well taught and guided and the animal does not suffer from his ignorance?

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Your the founder of tarbabies anonymous. You know what kind of people your up against. Their is only one cure for ignorance and you can't force it.

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dlowan wrote:

I think those of us who eat dead animals ought to have a sense of what it all means, so I am ambivalent about this.

I guess as long as the young butcher is well taught and guided and the animal does not suffer from his ignorance?

Yes, yes & yes to that first comment of yours above, Deb.

As for the "young butcher", well, I'd much prefer the helpless animal was stunned before the butchering ... Leaves much less possibility of needless suffering on the part of the poor creature. And why should it be aware of what is actually happening? What exactly does that achieve?

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Well, do they stun the poor things in our abbatoirs, Msolga?

And, how do you think reason kind of tamed christianity, sort of, Amigo?

Do you consider Muslims inherently stupider than christians? And Jews? And all the other religions which once sacrificed animals, and people?

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But back to Oz & the Keniry Report recommendations that were supposed to make everything about the live sheep export trade right after the Cormo Express incident alerted Australians that things were very wrong with it. I understand that the RSPCA was an advisory body to the report & as we've seen, ended up rejecting what eventuated.:

msolga wrote:

[The Keniry Report into the Live Export Industry

Following the public outcry over the Cormo Express incident in August to October 2003 the federal Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Warren Truss announced an enquiry into the live export industry headed by Dr John Keniry. The Keniry Report was released in January 2004 and is available at www.daff.gov.au/keniry

The Report contains eight recommendations on the conduct of the live export trade. Whilst the RSPCA believes that full and proper adoption and implementation of the Keniry recommendations would have seen improvement in how the trade was conducted, the recommendations were not fully adopted by the government. Regardless, the fact remains that there are inherent problems in the long distance transport of animals and animals can often suffer cruelty at their destination. The RSPCA believes the only solution to the to the cruelty inherent to live animal export for slaughter is an end to the trade.

http://www.rspca.org.au/campaign/liveexport.asp

I would dearly love to know what "improvements" actually occurred & which didn't, as a result of the Keniry recommendations. It appears (from the RSPCA's publicly stated position) that some recommendations went out the window & that it could not support the outcome. Which makes me wonder: was the Australian public hood-winked into believing that the live sheep trade was made more acceptable on the basis of favourable publicity as a result of the report? If so, we seriously need an update of real, current conditions in this industry.

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dlowan wrote:

Well, do they stun the poor things in our abbatoirs, Msolga?

I honestly don't know. But it would be the kindest thing to do. <sigh>

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I don't really consider anybody stupid dlown.

and all religions and ideologies suffer the same down fall, to me their all the same.

Almost all of us in our own beliefs encourage a lack of empathy and understanding towards others.

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Then I am unsure of your point re the tarbabies thing.

Gradually, religions generally have stopped sacrifice of animals and humans.

Well, except for the idiots who think god is on their side in various mass killings we call war...

But, I mean in the general conduct of religious life, killing has all but stopped.

Why, do you think?

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Excellent AGE article from 2003, exploring the issues of the live sheep trade. This was published after shocking the Cormo Express incident in August of that year, when public outrage was at it's height:

Lambs to the slaughter
September 27, 2003/the AGE

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1064083186643_2003/09/26/27n_sheep,0.jpg

Would kindness to animals mean cruelty to farmers? Geoff Strong reports on the dilemmas of the live sheep trade.

Anchored off-shore in the windy sunshine, the sheep carrier Al Kuwait, with its improbably high sides, looked like an island fortress. It seemed to be hovering, its very presence taunting the animal rights protesters who lined up this week on the Portland dockside.

At the port entrance, on the edge of town, a row of police manned a temporary security checkpoint in front of the 30-odd protesters, who waved banners and chanted, "Stop the death ship" and "Ships of shame".

Appalled by news this week of 53,000 sheep adrift on a ship in the Persian Gulf without a destination - on a journey in which 4000 had already died - the protesters were trying to prevent the loading of another shipload of livestock bound for the Middle East.

In the end, the 28,000 sheep were loaded and consigned to their destiny in Kuwait. That was the end of that particular episode of this drama. But it is not the end of the issue that simmers beneath it, an issue that echoes another that symbolised a similar polarity about Australian social attitudes. .... <cont>>

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/26/1064083191426.html?from=storyrhs

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Excellent AGE article from 2003, exploring the issues of the live sheep trade. This was published after shocking the Cormo Express incident in August to October of that year, when public outrage was at it's height:

Lambs to the slaughter
September 27, 2003/the AGE

Would kindness to animals mean cruelty to farmers? Geoff Strong reports on the dilemmas of the live sheep trade.

Anchored off-shore in the windy sunshine, the sheep carrier Al Kuwait, with its improbably high sides, looked like an island fortress. It seemed to be hovering, its very presence taunting the animal rights protesters who lined up this week on the Portland dockside.

At the port entrance, on the edge of town, a row of police manned a temporary security checkpoint in front of the 30-odd protesters, who waved banners and chanted, "Stop the death ship" and "Ships of shame".

Appalled by news this week of 53,000 sheep adrift on a ship in the Persian Gulf without a destination - on a journey in which 4000 had already died - the protesters were trying to prevent the loading of another shipload of livestock bound for the Middle East.

In the end, the 28,000 sheep were loaded and consigned to their destiny in Kuwait. That was the end of that particular episode of this drama. But it is not the end of the issue that simmers beneath it, an issue that echoes another that symbolised a similar polarity about Australian social attitudes. .... <cont>>

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/26/1064083191426.html?from=storyrhs

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The shameful Australian practice of live sheep trade.

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