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Sat 4 Feb, 2006 01:16 am
Hello fellow A2K'ers, after some time I seek again your wisdom to carry out this difficult situation that has presented to me.
It is important to say that I'm presently somehow shaken by what has happened...
Story goes as follows:
I'm in a 3-months-and-some-weeks relationship with a 19 year old gal. We met each other in a "friendly network" kind of site. After dating a good number of women, I fell for her. She studies university too, 1 year below me, and attends her classes in the morning schedule on a different school than mine.
- When I asked her what her fears where, she answered "to end up alone". I like solitude sometimes. -
Our relationship has been quite pleasant. I find myself behaving different now, compared to my other experiences. I'm a bit reluctant to fall in love, and in the effort, I tend to suffer less than her. She makes the most phone calls, invites me to family reunions, dresses up nicely...etc. Not that I'm not into it, but I'm feeling more relaxed, a more easy going kind of attitude. Lots of physical affection though.
My lifestyle is completely different to hers. I work monday through friday in telemarketing, 7 hours in the mornings. After that I run off to my 6-hours-a-day school period. It is a bit exhausting, but I find it rewarding. She doesn't have a job... her mom gives her daily chores at home, which of course, doesn't please her.
The main issue is - and I don't want to make an image of myself as an egocentric-snobby kind of man - our social levels are totally different. Let's see...
I live in one of "the nice" neighborhoods in TJ. Hers is a bit on the dangerous side. I drive a decent, clean, fully working piece of car. Hers needs more money than its worth in the mechanic department, lets not say aesthetics. I only have 1 sister - independent, good life - she has 2 bros and 2 sis, with 14 nephews. The men were drug addicts, are unemployed, and one is a wetpack. Slight criminal history on both.
At the beginning I thought she had some gold-digger profile. She insinuated that she wanted certain items when windowshopping, asked me to take her out to dine more often, and one time - between laughters - told me that "I should drive a bigger car". Well... I like to save money. I dont think its the case, but...
This alone has gotten me into unconfortable situations including: "I'm hungry...my dad didn't give my mom money for the expenses this weekend, therefore, there was nothing to eat at lunchtime". Or probably there was something, but not what she wanted. Ok...
Problem is, recently, I have seen her cry way too often. First time that happened was because she knew that I was going to europe on vacations, for real. I didn't knew the reason at the time, but quickly figured out. Next time, was the last day we saw each other before vacations. She told me that every day - or nearly - she cried thinking on me. On my return, she cried when she knew my intentions of actually finishing school in Neatherlands (which is a big possibility), and staying there. Also, because she was afraid that we would separate. On the telephone one night she told me that she "felt like crying" that night (blackmailing?). Another time when I saw her this week for just an hour in between classes, because we couldn't see each other as much...
... and, just some hours ago for around a 1:30 hour time span. Before going out to the movies she basically threw out all of her problems inside her family. No money for the cellphone monthly service, her mom having to pawn the last of her jewelry to fix the car, problems with her brother, etc. After the movie, she cried on my lap.
Now, I can understand the relatively horrible situation that she is going through. Her parents sometimes fight for long periods of time (and apparently they have been doing so for more than 20 years), and they sleep in separate rooms for a long time now. She is looking for a job, but I don't think she will find any with the available schedule that she has. Plus, she is a tad picky. Although I know for sure that she could find a job at my workplace - specially with my help -, she refuses to "end up as a telemarketer". My paycheck is big... young families seem to live with it. For a student like me, it even allows luxuries.
So all in all, it has been so many recent times when she has cried. Today, after an hour of blank staring, hugging her, lending an arm, patting her head, and saying pretty things... I told her in a sweet-whispery voice, "cry all you need to, it takes courage to, but after that be strong and dont cry for the same reason again". Well... it didn't seem to have had a good effect. After a while she told me, "Sorry to make you feel uncomfortable... but how can you tell me to be strong when I have gone through so many things in my life? I am strong. You can't expect me to be immune to everything that happens to me at school and in my family". After that she tossed some irony and suggested me "to leave and do something worthwhile instead of wasting my time seeing her cry".
I left after a kiss that only I looked for and more words that should have smoothen things up, "I dont waste my time with you, if I'm here its because I want to. I can't leave with you looking like that. I like to think that being with you makes you feel better... if that ain't true, than this doesnt make sense." She thanked the time that I shared with her, and told me to leave.
Oh by the way, I know she loves me, but wont tell that to me simply because I don't say it first. I really really like her, but situations like this kind of build up distance between her and me. Can I help her someway? Is there something I could do? How can I avoid this situations? I can understand that she is sentimental, but...
I don't know what to do, don't know what to say the next time this happens - cause it will. This relationship has broughten me problems with my dad too, but that would be another story.
Thank you very much for reading the whole post...
Pohl.
You don't say how old you are, Pohl, but my initial instinctive response is to say "blow her out, NOW!". I was in a relationship like you describe when i was 19 or so. At the time i saw the situation as one where I was always letting her down by being "inconsiderate" or "unfeeling" or "not understanding her". (Because she was always telling me I was). I would try to do better, but it was never enough. Now I realise she was manipulating me by trying to make me feel guilty all the time. I was young and shy and comparatively lacking in both confidence and experience of life and relationships. She ran off with my friend eventually. I met him a few years later and we compared notes & the same thing had happened with him! Emotional blackmail is the name of the game, as you appear to be realising. She may have genuine problems, but you ain't gonna be able to solve them. You have enough on your plate with your job and school. Don't let your school work suffer because of this!
Plenty of people have life problems like she seems to, but they don't all use them as excuses. She sounds like a nightmare! You sound like a thoughtful guy but you should realise that you weren't put on this earth to give comfort to all the sad sacks and emotional basket cases around. She says that she doesn't want to "end up as a telemarketer." Well, at least telemarketers earn a living and pay their way. Also you are a telemarketer, as she well knows, so her remark showed at least insensitivity and lack of tact, which are both symptoms of self centredness.
Hit the road, Jack!
That's my 2 cents worth.
I think that contrex has said it all. This girl sounds to me like trouble.................a constant whiner and complainer who wants someone to "take her away from all that".
I think that if you become more involved with her, not only will you be (forever) solving her problems, but her family's problems too. And the more that you give, financially as well as emotionally, the more that they will want.
You are right. You are from two different worlds. For you own sake, dump her, and find someone who can share your life, not overtake it, and suck you dry.
P.S. And don't let the tears fool you. She is going for the jugular, playing "poor poor pitiful me"!
Pohl--
You're a guy interested in discovering yourself and the world. For you dating is part of this self-discovery.
She's a girl looking for immediate, absolute, into-the-sunset security. She needs a counselor more than she needs a boyfriend and you're no counselor, Pohl.
Encourage her to get professional help--but don't get yourself deeply emotional involved.
Agree with all the above...
plus
This girl sounds like she's got WAY to much time on her hands.
Why doesn't she have some type of job?
Perhaps she needs something to take her thoughts off herself.
I know such situations - both from personal experience (not very similar, but close to) and professionally (much more, when working with youth).
I understand both of you. And I think, it could come out quite well .... but most presumely only in phantasy.
A friendship "under these stars" doesn't really work in reality ...
If it's really love - well, that would be something different.
And I doubt that. For both of you.
Hmmm.
If you said you were together for three weeks, say, I might agree. But at three months, I think it's reasonable for her to think she can unburden herself to you, and it's reasonable that she'd be sad if you went to the Netherlands.
I've talked before about rapport-talk (female) vs. report-talk (male), sounds like this could be a textbook case, especially in the reactions you say she gives. She could just plain be wanting to have someone to talk to, wanting to be intimate in this way as well as others. Building rapport. You may be taking what she's saying as a report of something that is lacking and needs to be fixed, when that is not how she meant it at all. That could explain part of why she reacts to your offers of help badly, saying she doesn't want you to help her be a telemarketer, etc.
All of this is "could" and "maybe", I can see what you have said so far going a few ways. But I can certainly easily see one of those ways being, she's a young woman who has a hard life and plans to get herself into a better position (the fact that she is going to university is significant) but isn't there yet, and meanwhile, would just appreciate having a boyfriend who will listen to her without jumping in and trying to fix things for her.
If I were to give advice, that would be it -- see what happens when you just plain listen and sympathize.
I agree with all of the above, especially Noddy's words.
By the way, this is assuming there is no immediate crisis -- that you are not trying to decide whether to go to the Netherlands based on her, for example. For that kind of thing, don't let the relationship limit you -- it will adjust, or not.
I just thought - I hope you are using efficient methods of contraception.
Yeah contrex, we are, fortunately.
Talking about sex though, she has been my first successfull sexual partner... successfull because I enjoyed it finally. Curiously she started to get physical early in the relationship, but without a doubt she lacked experience. Makes me wonder... Oh, she cried in bed too one time, thinking that "she probably wasn't everything that I expected".
Well, strong advice that you are all giving me. Good thing is that I'm not blind to everything thats happening (I think). I would really want to help her, but it's a mixed bag of feelings that sadly, sometimes, includes pity.
Oh, yeah... my age. I celebrated my 20th birthday just a month ago.
Shucks... I know for sure this relationship will end in a sad way. Phoenix, your words are harsh! But do have sense... and thats what troubles me. The thought of her - unconsciouslly, maybe - playing that role...
I think for the moment I will do what Sozobe says, but if this starts happening too often... It will be time to call it quits. I'm afraid to what would be the reaction of the "professional help" bomb.
I get in relationships with strange women... probably I'm strange too, or probably we are all weird.
Thank you all for your advice, it was really needed. If you have anything more, I will appreciate it, though the point has been made quite clear.
el_pohl--
Hold your dominion.
Re: Trial of Tears - Young Relationship in Problems
el_pohl wrote:Hello fellow A2K'ers, after some time I seek again your wisdom to carry out this difficult situation that has presented to me.
It is important to say that I'm presently somehow shaken by what has happened...
Hi Pohl:
Lots of people are struggling to find a HEALTHY relationship--and if you're in a relationship with a young woman who cries all the time--that doesn't sound healthy.
I recently found a couple of articles on the subject, "'How to avoid marrying a jerk." The developer of the program, John Van Epp, is a relationship counselor. He stated the following:
Quote:"I found so many couples coming to get premarital counseling but already completely set on the marriage and marriage date," he said. "There was not a lot of openness toward working on issues that may have already been present in the relationship." He realized during this time that the need existed for a program targeted at singles before they became serious in their dating relationships. "Because once serious," he said, "they overlook and minimize the problems that later infect and plague their marriage."
Before you become too serious about this dating relationship, you might want to explore the program, "How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk: The Way to Follow Your Heart Without Losing Your Mind."
The program focuses on "head knowledge" and "heart knowledge."
Quote:"The program is about a lot more than avoiding a certain type of person," Van Epp said. "It's how to pace your relationship and know what exactly to look for in a healthy commitment." The course focuses on what he calls the underdeveloped education of the mind and the overdeveloped attachment of the heart. "Too many people simply do not know what to look for when dating, and too many people simply do not know how to keep a dating relationship in balance," he said. "It was these two needs which led me to develop a program to follow in the premarital relationship and decisionmaking process."
Source
See also:
How to Pick a Partner
Pohl--
You wrote:
Quote:She doesn't have a job... her mom gives her daily chores at home, which of course, doesn't please her.
At 19 she should be beyond pouting and postponing household chores.
Her relationships with both her mother and her father seem unsatisfactory. She has troubles with at least one brother. Is there anyone in her life--besides you--with whom she can get along?
She doesn't sound one bit shy about putting herself and her emotional and financial needs first.
Think very carefully before you climb on your white horse to rescue this heroine.
3 Month Update!
Hello again friends. Again I seek your help in a situation that apparently is definite.
Around the 20th of April I went on vacations with my family. Before the day I left, and after the day I arrived, me and my girlfriend shared some of the greatest times ever. After the 3 months crisis which I narrated here I talked some issues with her, and was able of telling her what I disliked. Fortunately we smoothed the relationship and carried on with stronger bonds. Every now and then glimpses of the past problems reappered - as was expected - but nothing severe. Apparently, we loved each other openly.
However, days after returning from those vacations, and for around 5 days consecutively, bad times arrived. I wont go over the details, but it was quite common to find her moody, stressed, aggressive, and uncommunicative. At those times she expected more of me, while I - unsure of how to react - took distance. Of course, lots of crying. Don't get me wrong, I did tried to comfort her, but somehow it wasn't enough to make her feel fine. At the same time, she sometimes left me for her friends (guys and gals) to hang out, AKA drinking. I didnt approve this, so I didnt join her... but didn't prohibit her either.
I know perfectly that her reactions are originally not directed at me as a person, but towards life in general. She did had a lousy time with her family as home and economic problems evolved. But anyhow, I did resent her behaviour and grew tired, until I just snapped.
We had the breakup talk because I couldnt take it anymore. It hurt so much to me because I felt that she needed me as a support - [/I]Dad told me that need and love confuses young people - specially when she begged for another chance. Frequently I irritated her for things I did or didn't do, so I mentioned that probably separating would be the best for us both. She cried and said that she loves me and believed our bond was for a long time. She also realized that it was up to some degree her fault, but I didn't know what to tell her in order to well... smooth the situation. After LOTS of crying (horrible situation) I told her that we should take just a week to sort things out.
Well... I started dating someone else. Casually, nothing formal. But this new girl makes me happy, while remembering the other one brings me a sad face. I don't know what will happen with this new gal, but I'm having a good time. She's quite different after all...
Anyways, the week has gone by and today I will talk with my still girlfriend (or ex?). We talked over the telephone the other day and it was a happy conversation. I know we could continue our relationship, but its guaranteed that problems will reappear. Originally I thought of being brutally honest to her - since I have been from the beginning - but it would be too much to handle. I miss her because I loved her, but returning to her doesn't seem the most intelligent thing to do.
So, is there any good way to breakup? I want to keep on seeing her, because I do care about her, but I'm not sure if that would be the best for her. Probably I will drop something like "I dont know exactly what I want to do, but for the time being, I want to free myself from our compromise, and keep on seeing each other leisurely". Blah... sounds so lame, but it's true to a point.
I'm open for suggestions and opinions. God, I never thought that this would be so difficult.
Thanks again!
I don't think there is any one good way to break up. As with all things, it depends on the people involved, context, etc., etc.
I will say that dragging things out never seems to work very well, though. I'd suggest something clear and decisive about ending the romantic aspect of your relationship, and then leaving it up to her about whether she'd want to see you at all, just as friends. I don't think you need to make that decision for her.
If it turns out to be terribly painful for either or both of you to see each other at all, you can re-evaluate, but that doesn't need to be part of the initial break-up. (As in, you don't need to say, "I don't think we should see each other at all because I'm not sure it would be best for you." Just break up with her, clearly and decisively, and then leave open the question of having any [non-romantic/sexual] contact at all.)
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