Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 06:35 pm
Thanx Questioner. I appreciate you helping me out.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 07:06 pm
Questioner wrote:
snood wrote:

'Sgot little to do with what "I like", buddy. Don't blame me for your tortured semantics.


Right, well I suppose if you don't have anything worthwhile to add you may as well critique semantics.


Well, in my humble opinion buddy, your babblings about satanic worship equals nothing.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:52 pm
Ok, as this is the correct thread for questions of this nature, I will adress them, MA.
Not so much for your benifit, as I doubt you'll gain any understanding from this, but others may...
MA wrote:
Quote:

It would seem to me that Satan is to be worshipped. Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Only in the sense that the Satan, the adversary, is synonomous with self to the Satanist.
Quote:

Doktor S, I went back and looked at that thread Questioner pointed me to and I'm sorry but I could not find the answer to my question. So, I decided to do a bit of research on my own. I have to tell you, I am quite confused.

Having read that article from Mr. Crabtrees website, I am unsure what is confusing you.
Quote:

Am I to take it that your imaginary friend is superior to what you call my imaginary friend? And if that is what you mean, why is yours superior to what you call my imaginary friend?

Huh? How you concluded that from this
Quote:

Satan is not a real, living entity, conscious or a physical thing that can be interacted with.

Is truely perplexing. The whole point is that there aren't any imaginary friends.
Quote:


I am sure there are many perceptions of Satanism out there and none of them IMO are too favorable. So, perhaps you can understand why it is so hard for some to accept what you are professing?

Satanism was never intended to be palletable to the herd at large.
It tailors to a certain breed.
Quote:

I still wish Dok would tell me the difference between Satan and the devils. Couldn't find much on that.

Devil worshippers are reverse christians. Satanists are something wholey different.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:56 pm
For the record, there are no denominations of Satanism. Unlike most religions, Satanism was codified to be straight forward and unambiguous. Satanism leaves no room for exegesis, or misunderstanding. You get it or you don't, you're a Satanist or you are not. There are no 'varieties.'
It's all laid out quite clearly in the Satanic bible.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 10:00 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Ok, as this is the correct thread for questions of this nature, I will adress them, MA.
Not so much for your benifit, as I doubt you'll gain any understanding from this, but others may...

Not quite sure how to take that statement but I appreciate you addressing this.
MA wrote:
Quote:

It would seem to me that Satan is to be worshipped. Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Only in the sense that the Satan, the adversary, is synonomous with self to the Satanist.

I have no idea at all what that is supposed to mean. Can you elaborate?
Quote:

Doktor S, I went back and looked at that thread Questioner pointed me to and I'm sorry but I could not find the answer to my question. So, I decided to do a bit of research on my own. I have to tell you, I am quite confused.

Having read that article from Mr. Crabtrees website, I am unsure what is confusing you.

What is confusing me is that the site says one thing and you have said others. So, I still don't know what exactly your brand of Satanism is.
Quote:

Am I to take it that your imaginary friend is superior to what you call my imaginary friend? And if that is what you mean, why is yours superior to what you call my imaginary friend?

Huh? How you concluded that from this.

Well, you obviously chose this religion over any other so I figured you think it's superior. You mean it's not?
Quote:

Satan is not a real, living entity, conscious or a physical thing that can be interacted with.

Is truely perplexing. The whole point is that there aren't any imaginary friends.

So just what is it at the center of your religion then?
Quote:


I am sure there are many perceptions of Satanism out there and none of them IMO are too favorable. So, perhaps you can understand why it is so hard for some to accept what you are professing?

Satanism was never intended to be palletable to the herd at large.
It tailors to a certain breed.

Of that I have no doubt. It seems that stupidity is the ultimate sin to Satanists? Who decides who is stupid and who isn't?
Quote:

I still wish Dok would tell me the difference between Satan and the devils. Couldn't find much on that.

Devil worshippers are reverse christians. Satanists are something wholey different.

Then perhaps you could explain exactly what a Satanist is? I've read a bunch on those websites but I'd like to hear it in your own words.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 10:04 pm
Doktor S,

Perhaps you can explain these to me then if there are no denominations of Satanism? Perhaps they have some other name but I could only think of denominations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 08:03 am
snood wrote:
Questioner wrote:
snood wrote:

'Sgot little to do with what "I like", buddy. Don't blame me for your tortured semantics.


Right, well I suppose if you don't have anything worthwhile to add you may as well critique semantics.


Well, in my humble opinion buddy, your babblings about satanic worship equals nothing.


Which is why I stepped aside to let others explain it, as I'm no expert about it, 'buddy'.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 08:17 am
Quote:

Only in the sense that the Satan, the adversary, is synonomous with self to the Satanist.

.....

I have no idea at all what that is supposed to mean. Can you elaborate?
There is no god but Me, insofar as My life is concerned.
Quote:


Having read that article from Mr. Crabtrees website, I am unsure what is confusing you.

.....

What is confusing me is that the site says one thing and you have said others. So, I still don't know what exactly your brand of Satanism is.

You must mean this part:
VC wrote:

Of course Satanism has denominations and widely varying beliefs. Many types of Satanism exist including some where Satan is seen as a living being. I think if there was a god, it would probably be an evil one. In these, thankfully, the basis of the belief is not the Christian Bible and I call these beliefs "Righteous Satan" theologies. All the elements of Satan I have just mentioned are discussed in more depth below and on the essays linked from this page."


Mr Crabtree has his opinion, but it is not shared by the Church of Satan or it's founder, and to those that know Satanism intimately the idea is patently absurd.

It is true, there are groups (mostly on the internet) that call themselves 'Satanist' that have no idea about actual Satanism. They are usually teenagers/young adults that lash out against their christian paradigm but lack the wherewithal to free themselves of it. They are no different than any other spiritual religionist save the color of their wool.
Satanism requires heavy introspection and critical thought that most are simply incapable of. Devil worship requires but a small shift in thought within a very narrow yet widely accepted dualistic paradigm.
It is on this basis many rebellious christians take the label of Satanist. That doesn't make them Satanists, though. Satanism is clearly defined, and the existence of those that would miss the boat entirely and run right off the field with the ball don't change that.

Quote:

Well, you obviously chose this religion over any other so I figured you think it's superior. You mean it's not?

...
Satanism certainly isn't for everyone. But what the heck does not believing in deities have to do with my thinking it is inferior/superior? You're logic doesn't flow.
Quote:

So just what is it at the center of your religion then?

I am.
Quote:

Of that I have no doubt. It seems that stupidity is the ultimate sin to Satanists? Who decides who is stupid and who isn't?

I do.
Quote:

Then perhaps you could explain exactly what a Satanist is? I've read a bunch on those websites but I'd like to hear it in your own words.

Well, that's all well and good, but I don't feel like explaining it for the 100th time(and at least the 3rd time on this site, in this forum, and in threads you took part in) to someone that probably won't understand anyway.
The best I will do is point you at a couple sites that are the real deal.

http://web.satanism101.com/ - Read closely the essentials and philosophy sections. Any questions you have left should be answered there.

If you are still left with questions, go to the source.
Of course, if you really want to know you will have to read the Satanic bible.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 12:10 pm
Doktor S,

I am really trying to understand you. I ask questions of you because I figure you would know the answers about this. I have read these threads a few times and no, I still don't really know what a Satanist is. You seem to dance around the issues and never really pin down an answer. So, I guess I will just have to read that bible of yours and see if I can get any answers.

I do understand that you think you are a god. I got that part a long time ago. The part I don't get is why do you think that? I don't imagine you have any supernatural powers or anything so I am having a hard time understanding how anyone would think themself a god.

I am not quite as stupid as you seem to think I am. I am very capable of understanding things. I liked you a lot more when you first came on A2K and didn't want to offend anyone. You were quite the gentleman, I thought. So, perhaps you can understand why I might think being a Satanist isn't such a good thing? It seems that if you are a Satanist and are a god you can pretty much say and do what you want without considering anyone else's feelings?

As far as my logic flows, well, if you chose Satanism over anything else then you must feel it is superior to the others, right? If it wasn't you would choose something else? Does that flow a bit better?
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 03:48 pm
Quote:

I am really trying to understand you. I ask questions of you because I figure you would know the answers about this. I have read these threads a few times and no, I still don't really know what a Satanist is. You seem to dance around the issues and never really pin down an answer. So, I guess I will just have to read that bible of yours and see if I can get any answers

That's the spirit.
Quote:

I do understand that you think you are a god. I got that part a long time ago. The part I don't get is why do you think that? I don't imagine you have any supernatural powers or anything so I am having a hard time understanding how anyone would think themself a god.

First, you must understand I have a much more realistic idea about what constitutes 'god' than you seem to. God to me is not a comic book character with super powers. God to me is a part of the psyche.
I define my own morality.
I define what constitutes right and wrong.
I decide what is good.
I steer my own destiny.
I am the most important being in my universe.
I solve my own problems, and define my own path.
I fill all the rolls for myself many would ascribe to something 'out there'
I found within myself long ago that which people spend their lives fruitlessly searching for.
I am my own God.
Quote:

I am not quite as stupid as you seem to think I am. I am very capable of understanding things. I liked you a lot more when you first came on A2K and didn't want to offend anyone. You were quite the gentleman, I thought. So, perhaps you can understand why I might think being a Satanist isn't such a good thing? It seems that if you are a Satanist and are a god you can pretty much say and do what you want without considering anyone else's feelings?

Would you like a tissue?
Quote:

As far as my logic flows, well, if you chose Satanism over anything else then you must feel it is superior to the others, right? If it wasn't you would choose something else? Does that flow a bit better?

It wasn't a choice so much as self-honesty.
I read TSB and saw myself there. I saw that the way I think and feel had been predefined. I simply chose to accept the label because it fit.
Satanists are born, not made.
But none of that has anything to do with what you were talking about, ie deities in Satanism. There is but one, and He is indeed superior to any other from where I sit. More hansom too.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 03:53 pm
And just who would HE be, Doktor S?
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 08:29 pm
Why, me of course.
Do try to follow Smile
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 08:33 pm
Oh, I am following just fine. I guess I just needed to see you put it in black and white. I guess what confuses me is I thought there were no deities in your brand of Satanism. But, if you are god or a god, how can there be no deities?
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 12:23 am
This is what separates autotheism from atheism Smile
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 11:20 am
Doktor S,

Yes, I gathered that. But, to me, it seems a bit, oh what's the word I'm looking for here?, can't think of one right now. It seems to me that if you say Satanism has no deities and yet you consider yourself god or a god, that Satanism does involve a deity, being yourself? Am I misunderstanding? You claim no deities but then claim to be one?

I am looking up the Satanic Bible and I do have to admit, it's not going to be easy for me to read it and I think you can understand why, but I am really trying to understand where you are coming from.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 02:24 pm
Okay Doktor S, I have looked up the Satanic Bible and what do you say we take it bit by bit? That way, you can answer my questions as they come up? Are you up for that?

Let's start with this: My comments are in blue.


Quote:
The Nine Satanic Statements

from The Satanic Bible, ©1969

by Anton Szandor LaVey

[français]

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/NineStatements.html

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

So, this means do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it?

I like this much better:

Matthew 5:3-....

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth..........

Doktor S, where would these find comfort within Satanism or would they just be left out all together?



2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

Well, this confuses me because if you are telling me it's not literal Satan then isn't Satan in this instance a pipe dream?

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

Undefiled wisdom? Defined by whom? Yourself? How do you know that you are not the one that is being deceived?

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

Oh the old do good to only those that do good to you idea? Love is never wasted Doktor S. Never!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

Right, this just means to me that it's ok to go out there and do whatever you want to do to anyone you want to do it to. So, I guess you would say it was ok that the Muslims reacted with violence to those cartoons they felt offended their religion?

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

Responsiblity to the responsible? What the heck does that mean? And who decides who is responsible? I haven't a clue as to what this really means. Can you elaborate for me, please? Psychic vampires? And who might they be? Christianity warns against psychics.

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!

Well, I have to admit, that's probably a pretty honest statement there, only if you take out the "divine spiritual and intellectual development bit" especially if you would follow these other Satanic statements. If man were divine spiritually then I would venture to say he wouldn't be viscious.

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

Right, do it because it feels good. Doesn't matter if it's right or not or if you hurt anyone by it just as long as you get personal gratification from it?

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Actually, the church I attend preaches against satan, not for him. Jesus Christ is what keeps my church in business.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 06:51 pm
You know what Momma; looking at these nine statements makes me think that a lot of people who call themselves Christians are not Christians but Satanists.

Look at statements 1 and 4, 5 and 7, 8.

That's the Bush administration.

Supported by good born againt conservative Christians.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 06:57 pm
xingu,

I understand what you are saying, but, I can tell you this much, I do not agree (agree might not be the correct word here, but I hope you know what I mean) with these Nine Satanic Statements in anyway whatsoever. I cannot speak for anyone but myself though.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 07:37 pm
MA wrote:

Doktor S, where would these find comfort within Satanism or would they just be left out all together?

They wouldn't. Satanism certainly isn't about offering cushly plushy sickly sweet comfort and codling to the weak..we leave that for the other guys.
Quote:

Well, this confuses me because if you are telling me it's not literal Satan then isn't Satan in this instance a pipe dream?

No. you just can't seem to wrap your head around the idea of a religion without deities can you? For the final time..there is no such thing as a literal 'satan'
Quote:

Undefiled wisdom? Defined by whom? Yourself? How do you know that you are not the one that is being deceived?

By doubting everything, and not falling prey to 'belief'
Quote:

Oh the old do good to only those that do good to you idea? Love is never wasted Doktor S. Never!

HAH!
If you think you can love everything you have lost your powers of discernment. Pity for you.
Quote:

Right, this just means to me that it's ok to go out there and do whatever you want to do to anyone you want to do it to. So, I guess you would say it was ok that the Muslims reacted with violence to those cartoons they felt offended their religion?
...

Responsiblity to the responsible? What the heck does that mean? And who decides who is responsible? I haven't a clue as to what this really means. Can you elaborate for me, please? Psychic vampires? And who might they be? Christianity warns against psychics.

You have more reading to do. I took the time to read your book before engaging in discussions of it. Please return the courtesy.
Quote:

Well, I have to admit, that's probably a pretty honest statement there, only if you take out the "divine spiritual and intellectual development bit" especially if you would follow these other Satanic statements. If man were divine spiritually then I would venture to say he wouldn't be viscious.

That bit is in quotes for a reason. That 'divine spiritual and intellectual development' is a reference to what religionists generally use to distinguish man from animal. These things that supposedly make us somehow 'better', but in actuality make us by far the most brutal and vicious creatures on the planet. It's a poke at the hypocrisy of 'spirituality'
Quote:

Right, do it because it feels good. Doesn't matter if it's right or not or if you hurt anyone by it just as long as you get personal gratification from it?

There is an entire chapter devoted to this in TSB.
Again, I have no desire to spoon feed my religion to you. Self sufficiency and independence are Satanic virtues..get out there and impress me by doing your own research.
Quote:

Actually, the church I attend preaches against satan, not for him. Jesus Christ is what keeps my church in business.

Hah!
Without using 'the devil' to strongarm people into believing, your religion would have died out in the middle ages.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 07:49 pm
Doktor S,

Look, I really am trying to understand you and your religion. I thought perhaps if we took it bit by bit it would be easier for you to answer questions I may have about it. I am in totally unchartered waters here for me and would definitely need some help with it.

Since you do not seem to have a desire to spoonfeed or whatever you wish to call it then I guess we can just drop it. Though I find it rather hard to understand how you would get anyone to convert or join up or whatever you would call it if you aren't even willing to engage in a discussion with them like I am attempting to do merely because they don't seem to grasp it the way you do right off the bat.

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck here, Dok. I had questions and felt the only way to find the answers was to ask you since you say you are a Satanist. I am willing to read your bible to try to understand this but I am definitely going to need some help with it.
0 Replies
 
 

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