extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 07:34 pm
Thank you for saying thank you.

Gosh, I'd love to have a Chai Tea right now.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 08:00 pm
Questioner wrote:
real life wrote:
I am very sorry to hear of your mom's cancer.


She doesn't have cancer, and that's not the point.


Maybe not, but manufacturing a cancerous mom for the sake of argument sure is a twisted way to make a point.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 08:04 pm
extra medium wrote:
Doesn't Satan need The Bible? And Doesn't The Bible need Satan?

(The above will probably offend both Christians and Satanists equally.)

How many people have become Christians because they are so afraid that Satan will get them and that they will burn in hell? How many people become Christians to get a free pass out of hell and away from Satan, and not because they "Love the Lord" or some such?

One thing I find rather ironic is Satan traces a lot of his fame to The Bible also.

Oh, sure, Satan-like entities have been mentioned for thousands of years prior to The Bible.

But when Satan got Bible airplay, he went worldwide. Took it to the next level and went on a worldwide tour. Due to all things: The Bible!

Is is possible to "not believe" in The Bible, and "believe in" Satan? Doesn't Satan actually need and gain his star-power, fear-power, yea part of his very existence from The Bible? Satan became pretty darn powerful in Bible days...according to the Bible.

I mean, if one totally disbelieves the Bible, Satan loses a lot of his fear-power. Satan becomes like another little leprechan or a minor demigod. Troublesome, but only at the level of playing little pranks that irritate you. Like a mini Greek God or something.

Satan needs people to believe The Bible. And The Bible needs people to fear in and believe Satan.

The 2 are like in a symbiotic relationship. Perhaps they should seek counseling for Co-Dependency?

Twisted Evil

This would hold true if Satanists and devil worshippers were the same animal.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 08:53 pm
I hear ya say animal.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 09:04 pm
There is a difference between a Satanist and a devil worshipper? Could you tell me what the difference(s) is/are?
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 09:07 pm
I am a Satanist, while Dys is a devil worshipper. The only discernible difference, as far as I can tell, is geographically. Devil worshippers prefer high desert while Satanists long for the comfort of the fetid swamp.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 09:10 pm
snood wrote:
I hear ya say animal.

Well we ain't minerals!
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 09:12 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
There is a difference between a Satanist and a devil worshipper?

Yes
Quote:
Could you tell me what the difference(s) is/are?

I am capable of that, yes.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 09:14 pm
Well? You going to make me drag it out of you or what? :wink: Would you please tell me what the differences are?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 08:38 am
snood wrote:
Questioner wrote:
real life wrote:
I am very sorry to hear of your mom's cancer.


She doesn't have cancer, and that's not the point.


Maybe not, but manufacturing a cancerous mom for the sake of argument sure is a twisted way to make a point.


Actually, I was speaking in a failed generalization there. Hindsight shows that I should have used 'someone's' instead of 'my'. Apologies all around, it wasn't intended as a 'twisted' method. If you'd like, I could also change 'mom' for 'grandfather', 'sister', or 'father' and make it a true statement if you find that more to your liking.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 08:41 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Well? You going to make me drag it out of you or what? :wink: Would you please tell me what the differences are?


Described at great length, by Dok, here.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:35 am
Thanx Questioner,

I had followed that thread back then but I didn't remember him really explaining the differences. So, I will sit here with my coffee this morning and go back and read it again.

I appreciate you linking me.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:23 am
Questioner wrote:
snood wrote:
Questioner wrote:
real life wrote:
I am very sorry to hear of your mom's cancer.


She doesn't have cancer, and that's not the point.


Maybe not, but manufacturing a cancerous mom for the sake of argument sure is a twisted way to make a point.


Actually, I was speaking in a failed generalization there. Hindsight shows that I should have used 'someone's' instead of 'my'. Apologies all around, it wasn't intended as a 'twisted' method. If you'd like, I could also change 'mom' for 'grandfather', 'sister', or 'father' and make it a true statement if you find that more to your liking.


'Sgot little to do with what "I like", buddy. Don't blame me for your tortured semantics.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:46 am
That was 4 pages ago baby, let it go....
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 12:15 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
That was 4 pages ago baby, let it go....


I was replying to the very last page, hon.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 02:20 pm
Doktor S Wrote:

Quote:
No, Satanism is not named after bible satan. Satan is a hebrew word that means adversary, opposer, or accuser, and Satanism uses that context primarily on a core level.

However, the faustian distinguished gentleman, womanizer,and clever smooth tongued manipulator is a fun archetype to use in a predominantly christian society.

There are also a few other pertinent reasons for Satan in Satanism, but I do believe I have answered your questions sufficiently.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67616&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=satanist&start=60


Didn't you one time say that you didn't literally worship Satan? I may not have that worded quite correctly. But, according to this statement:

Quote:
Anton LaVey, Satanist High Priest of the First Church of Satan in San Francisco gives us a glimpse of how Satan is seen in his book The Satanic Bible:

We hold Satan as a symbolic personal savior, who takes care of
mundane, fleshly, carnal things.


It would seem to me that Satan is to be worshipped. Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Quote:
Anton LaVey of the First Church of Satan in San Francisco, California, says that:

Satanism is a blatantly selfish, brutal religion. It is based on the belief
that man is inherently a selfish, violent creature... that the earth will be
ruled by those who fight to win.


Doktor S, I went back and looked at that thread Questioner pointed me to and I'm sorry but I could not find the answer to my question. So, I decided to do a bit of research on my own. I have to tell you, I am quite confused.

Quote:
Who is Satan?

Specifics of Satanism
The Sigil of the Baphomet
Laws and Sins
Hail Satan!
Satanic Sex
Books
The rest of this website

1. Premises of Satanism

Heaven, Hell, Existence

"There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!"

The Satanic Bible: The Book of Satan IV:2

Things that exist do so due to perfectly ordered and natural phenomenon. Gods, omniscient, omnipotent or omnipresent beings (etc) cannot exist.

Many Satanists keep an open mind, and many do believe in unexplained phenomena, Forteana, and of course, a strong doubt that we will ever know everything. Some believe in spirits and such but believe them to be the result of natural science, not of divinity.

Philosophical keywords and generic descriptive labels

Satanism can be considered to be:

Atheistic. There are no Gods in Satanism.

Not dualistic: souls and bodies are indivisible and there is no war between cosmic good and cosmic evil

Autodeists - we worship ourselves. The only God we can ever perceive is in our own existential world. We are each a God.

Materialistic

A "human potential" movement. Striving for longer life and a better education. Science And Technology Are Necessary: We who walk this dark path along with the same interests will pursue the elimination of Human limitation to the maximum

Of the left hand path

Opposition of religions, especially those that hold a belief in an afterlife. Satanism is an un-religion. Satanism adopts the adversaries of major religions as its standard bearers

Also:

Only the self is sacred. Nothing is holy except clarity of thought

Satanists do not pray

Meditation is considered a valid path of self discovery

Stupidity is the cardinal "sin" of Satanism, the sin which is believed to cause all other Human evil

Is Satanism just Humanism?

"Humanism shares materialistic views and ethical methodology with the Satanist and we have the same opinions on the emptiness of religion. Satanism is religious whereas Humanism is not due to the religious symbolism, ceremony, ritualistic and dogmatic aspects of Satanism. Satanism is also Left Hand Path, Humanism is not. For these reasons, although Satanists are not strictly "religious" in most senses of the word, Satanism is clearly a religion. Although the differences in metaphysics are so extremely opposed to what is classically considered 'religious' that some take to calling Satanism the unreligion, which is a term I find appealing!"

"Humanism" by Vexen Crabtree 2002 Nov 17

People need dogma and religious trappings.

2. Who is Satan?

"Satan is not a real, living entity, conscious or a physical thing that can be interacted with. It is a symbol, something ethereal, something that basically doesn't exist except as an emotional attachment and personal dream. Just like Buddhists do not worship Buddha, Satanists hold up Satan as an ultimate principal rather than an object of literal worship. Satan inspires and provokes people, like all (honest) religions the ultimate point is self-help. God believers have a different opinion on what Satan is, but their opinion is a result of their religion. Satanism's Satan is much more eclectic and multicultural than to be defined by Christianity or Islam.

Satan is the dark force in nature representing the carnal nature and death of all living things. Satan is the best word to describe our powerful and independent symbolic figurehead and our opposition of God and organized religion accords with even traditional views of Satan. The materialism of Satanism (even the spiritual components are highly reductionist) is a direct challenge of God, Allah, and all or other religious symbols. Satan wishes to replace God. The Christian Bible and other artefacts of religion may be plundered and misused as required as they're merely Human inventions. The social engineering aspect shows through with our imagery and style, we control people with it.

Of course Satanism has denominations and widely varying beliefs. Many types of Satanism exist including some where Satan is seen as a living being. I think if there was a god, it would probably be an evil one. In these, thankfully, the basis of the belief is not the Christian Bible and I call these beliefs "Righteous Satan" theologies. All the elements of Satan I have just mentioned are discussed in more depth below and on the essays linked from this page."

Introduction to the essay "Who is Satan" by Vexen, 2000

3. Specifics of Satanism

The Sigil of the Baphomet

"This is a pentacle form, with two points pointing upwards, one downwards, and one to each side. This is an upturned or inversed pentacle. The point-up pentangle represents the Spirituality of mankind as is used by Pagans and spiritualists although it was also used by early Christians. The point-down pentangle represents the carnal side of mankind rather than the spiritual. The Sigil of the Baphomet is a design based on the upturned pentacle.

Inside the pentacle is the image of a goat, its horns filling the upper two points, its ears filling the two lateral ones, and its mouth filling the lower one. This is Satan. The goat and pentacle theme is very old, and has its origins in alchemy. The pentacle is surrounded by two circles the innermost touching the points of the pentacle. In between the two circles are 5 Hebrew characters, spelling LVTHN anticlockwise: Leviathan."

"The Sigil of the Baphomet" by Vexen 2001 Jan 01

Laws and Sins

"Major Satanic Social Ethics:

Do whatever you want as long as you harm no underserving person

Lex Talionis

Social Stratification

Respect people, their territory and belongings, and when the fail to respect their do whatever you want to them. Destroy them

You can do whatever you want, but you pay the consequences

Responsibility to the responsible

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/modern.html#satan


And this statement just blew me away:

Quote:
"Satan is not a real, living entity, conscious or a physical thing that can be interacted with. It is a symbol, something ethereal, something that basically doesn't exist except as an emotional attachment and personal dream.


Am I to take it that your imaginary friend is superior to what you call my imaginary friend? And if that is what you mean, why is yours superior to what you call my imaginary friend?

I am having a hard time understanding why someone would choose your imaginary friend over a God that is kind and loving? Perhaps you can clear up some of my confusion? I would greatly appreciate it.

I am sure there are many perceptions of Satanism out there and none of them IMO are too favorable. So, perhaps you can understand why it is so hard for some to accept what you are professing?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 06:05 pm
snood wrote:

'Sgot little to do with what "I like", buddy. Don't blame me for your tortured semantics.


Right, well I suppose if you don't have anything worthwhile to add you may as well critique semantics.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 06:09 pm
MA,

Try this link out. Dok has mentioned a few times that this is the branch he follows, I believe. (Dok, correct me if I'm wrong here.)

'Philosophical Satanism'
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 06:30 pm
Thanx Questioner. So, if I am reading that stuff correctly Satanism also has demoninations? Guess I am not understanding why that is exactly, since it seems with Satanism you can pretty much do whatever since you consider yourself a god?

I still wish Dok would tell me the difference between Satan and the devils. Couldn't find much on that.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 06:34 pm
I'll let him explain it then, as he'll do a better job anyway.
0 Replies
 
 

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