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Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 08:59 pm
Re: truth
JLNobody wrote:
The question, Where do we [as some kind of continuing thing] go after we die? is about as meaningful as the question "Where did we [as some kind of proto-thing] come from when we were born?


High JL, you know your statement could be translated (loosely) as 'the same place' for departure as arrival. Maybe even without time as a factor (Einstein stated that time was not a constant throughout the universe) we could arrive and depart in the same instant or eon. There is a billion trillion kazillion holycrapillion years between the here here and there here ... but they both exist in the same heart beat of time.
Anybody know what the speed of a thought is ...... I think it's somewhere between instantaneous and shazzzam. Wink
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 09:36 pm
"shazzzam" was faster. Wink
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 09:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"shazzzam" was faster. Wink



NUH UUUH

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 11:16 pm
truth
Holycrapillion? Laughing Sounds like Bush's deficit.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 06:03 am
Re: truth
JLNobody wrote:
Holycrapillion? Laughing Sounds like Bush's deficit.


Actually I saw it engraved on a gold outhouse at the Vatican.
Shocked Laughing Shocked Laughing Embarrassed Shocked
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:04 am
Ruach wrote:
Terry, sorry so see your opinion of God is so grevious.
What has he done to you? (You don't have to answer that.)

If the God of the Bible is real, he has a lot to answer for:

-Lying to Adam and Eve.
Quote:
Genesis 3
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

They ate, they did not die, and their eyes were opened. Who told them the truth, God or the serpent?

-Killing innocent babies and animals by flood, war, famine, disease, and any other torment he can think up.

-Designing human beings such that it is impossible for us not to sin, then casting everyone in hell who happened to be born in the wrong culture and worshipped the wrong gods.

-Punishing children for the sins of their parents.

-Doing such a lousy engineering job on the human body (badly focused eyes, teeth prone to decay, wisdom teeth in jaws too small, joints prone to arthritis, menstruation, hair on legs and underarms, sinuses, etc), creating parasites and dangerous animals (heartworms, tapeworms, liver flukes, mosquitoes, scorpions, venomous snakes), creating poisonous plants (poison ivy, toxic mushrooms, tobacco, locoweed), natural disasters (floods, drought, tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes), diseases (cancer, stroke, MS, Parkinson's), and most of all, for giving some people deficient minds/evil souls and setting them loose to wreak havoc on the world.

Quote:
But it would be my wild guess at this time because the Bible states that God cannot look upon sin, that for some reason supernatural , outside our realm but inside the realm of God , that he cannot look upon sin. There seems to be a seperation of God and people when a person is sinning without the faith and belief of Jesus. It states, Jesus is the intercessor between man and God.

Do you honestly believe that nonsense? Priests and shamans make a very good living interceding, so of course they would tell you that. If god created everything, he also created sin. If he is everywhere, he is not separated from people and sinning. If he is truly omnipotent, he could forgive sins without sacrificing his son to himself first.

Quote:
It is your own knowledge that has blinded you. It would have been better for a non believer to never acquire knowledge if that is what you do with it. Use it as a reason to doubt God. ...

Not once have I taken my eye off the understanding that blinders are on the eyes of the unbeliever. I too was once blind, but, now I can see.

It is never knowledge that blinds us, it is ignorance and unquestioning belief. Why are you afraid to doubt? Do you think God will punish you for wanting to know the truth?
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:25 am
Ruach wrote:
The Heavens declare the glory of God.

The heavens do not declare anything, except that they exist. Why do you suppose that God would waste so much time and energy creating 100s of billions of planets in each of hundreds of billions of galaxies, if his purpose was only to create life on this one?

I cannot feel the earth's magnetic field, but I can measure its effect on a compass needle. You cannot measure any effect that God has on the universe, but you "feel" that he exists. So what was your point, that invisible things exist? Do you also believe in ghosts?

Quote:
Why do we call the sun, which is the brightest of all things man knows, the sun? Is it because the sun is the closest thing in our known world that we see daily and it is the brightest, which is similar to the qualities of The Son.

You must be kidding. Yes, the sun was worshipped as a god by several cultures, but the words sun and son simply happen to be homonyms in English (they aren't homonyms in other languages). Awe-full and offal are also homonyms. Of course, offal is a byproduct of sacrificing animals to a god of whom you are in awe. :wink:

Quote:
Why do we measure time, which God created and is it by chance or design that time is measured from the time that Christ died.

Days of the week are named after Germanic gods, and months after Roman gods. Do you believe in those gods also? Surely you know that other cultures use other calendars, based on events of importance to them. The Chinese use 60-year cycles dating from the invention of the calendar by Emperor Huangdi in 2637 BCE. The Hindu National calendar dates from the Saka Era (78 CE). This is year 5764 since the creation of the world according to the Jewish calendar, year 2547 since the birth of the Buddha, and year 1423 AH since the Hijra, Mohammed's flight to Medina in 622 CE (Muslim years are 11 days shorter than ours).
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:28 am
theollady wrote:
I always hope such questions about God are sincere and asked with an open heart that the Holy Spirit might quicken the understanding -
so the questioner will keep going, reading, asking more, and discovering that LIFE that is eternally given to the Christian believer.

I'm sure you do. It must be upsetting to have people ask questions for which you have no answers, and point out the flaws in your assertions.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:29 am
micah wrote:
The Old Testament reminds us to stand in awe of our God. It reminds us of His infinite control, and the means at His disposal. It reminds us that He will never desert us, no matter how bad we get; the Israelites have already tested the limits for us. It reminds us of our need to focus on our spiritual lives. We hear God threatening punishments, plagues, and destruction, and remember that the reason for these appearances is to wake us up! Love stands behind them--the Lord in His mercy is working to save us.

The OT reminds us that we cannot trust God. He lied to Adam and Eve, wiped out everything on a whim, had tens of thousands of women and children slaughtered so the Israelites could steal their land and cities, frequently deserted his people, allowed Job's children to be killed to win a bet, and broke his covenant with the Jews (at least according to Christians). A loving God would not torment his children, either before or after death.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:31 am
High Terry .... God worked his ass off right up to the creation of 'tri delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol'. He isn't finished creating, just kinda on a break ..... don't forget he has a big mind to play in .... like a universe or two or three etc etc etc Smile

I personally can't wait to see where his 'imagining' takes us next!
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:34 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
The Law of Non-Contradiction in logic merely notes that no assertion is both true and false, but applied to reality this simple rule entails that nothing can both "be . . . " and "not be . . . " at the same time, although we will of course want to find room to allow for things to change. Thus, neither strict Protagorean relativism nor Parmenidean immutability offer a correct account of the nature of reality. (Metaphysics IV 3-6)

The Law of Excluded Middle in logic states the necessity that either an assertion or its negation must be true, and this entails that there is no profound indeterminacy in the realm of reality. Although our knowledge of an assertion may sometimes fall short of what we need in order to decide whether it is true or false, we can be sure that either it or its negation is true. (Metaphysics IV 7-8)

People are good. True or false? Throughout history, God has killed innumerable babies. True or false? God allows babies to die in spite of the fervent prayers of their parents. True or false? God is good. True or false? Photons are particles. True or false?

100 degree water is hot. True or false. A person with an IQ of 120 has a superior mind. True or false?

A loving being is not malicious.
God is loving.
Only a malicious being would create unnecessary pain, torment and evil.
God created everything.
God is malicious.
Therefore God is not a loving being.

And the biggest fallacy of all:

Even though damage to certain areas of the brain invariably impairs consciousness, I believe that my soul will survive after my brain rots.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:52 am
If there is a survivor of death I would much rather have it be my soul than this rapidly failing carbon based life form. Besides, I think 'I' have some of tthe bugs worked out, just wait till you see my next model, even has a kickstand....

An unchallenged life is an unfulfilled life.
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Bacon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 10:33 am
The scary thing is, our universe is totally unlimited. There is no boundary or fence its never ending, after you go north 200 million light years you don't hit the border, you just keep going. This is an extremly hard thing for our brains to comprehend. Same goes with 'time', many people believe the Big Bang created us, some believe a god did, but the fact is regardless of which is right, what was here before them? Who created god? What was the universe before the big bang? But the scariest thing... Time will NEVER end, it just keeps going, and going and it never started, its always been here. The reason we think this is because of brains cant comprhend the fact of non-excistance of time and matter. The closest thing we have to 'nothingness' is 'space' but space is still something, we don't know what Nothing is.


Now think about death, when you die if there is no heaven, no second life, no hell, no after life then you are dead, not til the next round, not for 50 years, not til you earn Life again in heaven. You are dead and gone forever, nothingness forever.

No, nothingness is still something..... Death is the non excistance of you.

Deep down I believe that everyone knows there is no heaven or second life, but that is what my brain is telling me. Maybe it is telling me to protect me from the truth, maybe my brain is a virus that wants to use me to learn, maybe we are a science project for a year 11 high school student

maybe life was just a huge fluke of mutations that were all once a single Neutron.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 03:25 pm
truth
Bacon, I agree completely (except perhaps for your last two playful paragraphs). Time and space are, as Kant observed, epistemological elements of the way we organize experience. They are not features of the "objective" universe. The very fact that we find ourselves, when we carry the notions to the extreme, in a situation of absurdity (a beginning and end of time? or a fence around the spatial universe), reflects the artificiality of time and space.
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shepaints
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 06:32 pm
Well, at the very,very least, you go to memory and impact future generations.

"My great great grandmother was a (fill in the blanks) which completely explains why I am what I am today!"
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Bacon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 06:49 pm
Its scarey to think that if our world was destroyed, and no human survived, then we are done and never coming back. Never.

I believe that religon is pretty much fake. A way to control and or make money. People are into thier religon because it gives them comfort to the fact that you will ceace to excist someday. It gives them hope and covers the truth that we don't like to talk about. If there is a heaven, why do people get upset when someone dies? They are going to heaven and soon you will be there too. Pfft rubish, the fact that when you die you die, you can't come back and say 'hey, death is cool you go to this heaven place, where the 500 trillian trillan trillian living things are'.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 08:11 pm
Can someone tell me why it is almost impossible to envision spirit and body as things apart from each other? Mostt certainly the human form dies .... we watch it happen day after day. The spirit is not flesh, it can not be consumed.

Sounds stupid but where do thoughts come from and where do they go having been thought? Make no mistake, thoughts are real, as real as the computers they gave birth to.
What are thoughhts..... other than a spark leaping across a gap?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 08:23 pm
Like Rambo leaping a ditch, helicopter in hot pursuit.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:56 am
Hmmmmmmmmmm.....could it be?

Quote:

March 2004 issue

None So Blind
Perceptual-blindness experiments challenge the validity of eyewitness testimony and the metaphor of memory as a video recording
By Michael Shermer

Image: BRAD HINES

Picture yourself watching a one-minute video of two teams of three players each. One team wears white shirts and the other black shirts, and the members move around one another in a small room tossing two basketballs. Your task is to count the number of passes made by the white team--not easy given the weaving movement of the players. Unexpectedly, after 35 seconds a gorilla enters the room, walks directly through the farrago of bodies, thumps his chest and, nine seconds later, exits. Would you see the gorilla?



What God? ..... I didn't see any God .....
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 05:15 pm
Those who comtemplate the world and think, "there's got to be something more," are like the old song, "is that all there Is?" Comtemplate 400 billion years+ of evolving life that finally, against all odds, erupts into a self-aware consciousness, and the deepest statement this being can make is, "there's got to be more."
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