Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

If you don't know that a person is the totality of oneself I can't help you.

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edgarblythe wrote:

If you don't know that a person is the totality of oneself I can't help you.

Well thtat's a start, the only problem is that now we have two more words to define. It may be better if we stuck with the root ....person.
The dictionary definition of 'person' is "a living human"
Human, what is a human? When mom died, as per her wishes, she was cremated and her ashes scattered on her father's grave. When I opened the box I was not ready for what was there ..... a pure white dust. When the preacher said the words 'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return' it was instant reality time. We are shells of lifeless clay that need something more to join the 'living'. No matter how complex the shell, something extra is needed for life to begin

Consider this .... a candle....a flame .... of what use is the candle, without the flame and the flame without the candle? What are the chancesof the two getting together with out intervention of an outside force that is knowledgeable of both potentials?

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The cliche 'your life flashes before your eyes' needs to be heeded when contemplating what happens to you after you die. Think about what kind of state of mind you will be in during the last few moments before you pass. Depending on how you pass, your mind is the last to go as the rest of your organs slowly shut down, one by one.

This experience can either be agonizing or joyful depending on the life you've lived and your state of mind when it goes. That energy before you go whether negative or positive is released and that is your soul. Your soul is then gathered by the ether and dispearsed to feed the rest of the world.

In order to fully understand what I'm saying you can't think of yourself as yourself. You need to think of yourself and everything around you as one connected organism.

Treat others as you'd like to be treated, love thy neighbor, be strong in faith (whatever it is) and detach yourself from material desires are just a few teachings you'll find in different religions. Living by them will prepare your mind for a positive energy transfer when you go.

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truth
-=-, I can neither agree nor disagree with you.

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Re: truth

JLNobody wrote:

-=-, I can neither agree nor disagree with you.

Yeah...That's a good point. Who knows?

I try and imagine what the mind must be going through the moments just before one passes. Knowing that everything you've encountered in your life comes to an end and resolves itself one way or another in those last few moments is remarkable to me. Therefore, I can't help but think that the energy harnessed during those last few moments has to have a profound effect on the environment around us in one way or another. Is the mind over stressed or is it ready to except shut down? If we all know at some point in time we're going to die, doesn't it make sense to prepare for that moment? IMO, Everything that we do in our life and every decision we make is going to effect us during those last few moments.

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Re: truth

_-=-_ wrote:

...Therefore, I can't help but think that the energy harnessed during those last few moments has to have a profound effect on the environment around us in one way or another.

What energy?

What profound effect?

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To agree with you -, may I call you -, I would have to think that my last thought would be ' oh hoho ****! Smile

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Re: truth

rosborne979 wrote:

_-=-_ wrote:
...Therefore, I can't help but think that the energy harnessed during those last few moments has to have a profound effect on the environment around us in one way or another.

What energy?

What profound effect?

When you become extremely angry, your blood starts to boil, your heartbeat increases, your pores may begin to sweat along with several other physiolgical effects. All this energy is stemmed from a simple emotion triggered by your mind. When you get really angry and extend your negativity onto others it affects the environment around you. Energy is in everything. Both negative and positive. All I'm saying is that the mind is most likely going to be in an extremely emotional state just before one passes. If the emotions are positive, the energy that's built up during those last moments will positively effect the environment around you. If they're negative it'll have the reverse effect.

I also feel that what people call 'heaven' and 'hell' is reflected in your state of mind just before you die. If you're aware that your body is shutting down and there's no chance of recovery, I imagine you'll begin the process of contemplating your life. 'Seeing your life flash before your eyes'. If you have regrets and feel as if you're leaving deep unresolved issues behind, that's hell. If you feel that you're leaving the world behind having lived a fruitful life with no regrets. That's heaven.

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Re: truth
You're making a lot of sweeping statements here, and I'm trying to make sure I understand them...

_-=-_ wrote:

When you become extremely angry, your blood starts to boil, your heartbeat increases, your pores may begin to sweat along with several other physiolgical effects. All this energy is stemmed from a simple emotion triggered by your mind. When you get really angry and extend your negativity onto others it affects the environment around you.

The thing being transferred in this example is not energy, but information. The energy is already bound up in the individuals (in chemical form) and converted based on interpretation of the information.

_-=-_ wrote:

Energy is in everything.

I don't think so... information is not energy, but it exists.

_-=-_ wrote:

All I'm saying is that the mind is most likely going to be in an extremely emotional state just before one passes. If the emotions are positive, the energy that's built up during those last moments will positively effect the environment around you.

I agree it may affect the people around you, but you may not have people around you at the time.

When you say "energy" you're not talking about energy in the classical sense (physics), you seem to be talking about information and its affect on other entities which are capable of interacting with it.

Also, the concepts of Positive and Negative are subjective, purely related to judgement (another information process). They have no intrinsic meaning to the natural world, and a variable meaning within cultures.

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truth
-=-, I share you concern with the last moments of life, but maybe for different reasons. I'll get to that. I remember Aldous Huxley, with whom I had the pleasure of two private discussions the year before he died. He was also very concerned with the "transition." He wanted (I get this from readings not from him personally) to be as aware of his dying moment as possible, even to the extent of having a mind altering/enhancing drug administered to him by a doctor friend in his last moments. I was impressed by that. I don't know if he was energized in his awareness by the drug or if he just faded away like most of us will.
I have the feeling that the experience of "life passing before one's eyes" before dying might have something to do with appreciating one's life as some kind of very worthwhile "work of art". I think each of our lives is a powerfully meaningful "entity." Every life is worth an epic novel. And I suspect that each of us would like to realize and experience that fact when on the edge of extinction.
I'm not concerned with my present llife's effect on a future life. I do follow buddhism's prescriptions in many ways, but I do not believe in the doctrine of reincarnation as a literal transfer of an "ego" from one body to another. You refer to it as some kind of energy transfer (Rosborne's information transfer might be better). But I do think that one should be concerned with creating an ddep acceptance of one's mortality and the meaningfulness of one last moments. Once we have accepted our inevitable death (emotionally not just theoretically) and perhaps even look forward to it, as Huxley did, the very quality of our life is greatly enhanced.

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When I die i'm gonna be a poltergiest.

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truth
Stand up....Sounds like you are one now. Laughing

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Ok, whatever you say.

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Anyway, I don't care to dance around with hairsplitting thrust and parry discussions - Just wanted to weigh in and now I will back out. I will read some of the thread from time to time, though.

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Re: truth

Quote:

You're making a lot of sweeping statements here, and I'm trying to make sure I understand them...

Their not sweeping statements really. Like you said they're being misunderstood.

Quote:

When you say "energy" you're not talking about energy in the classical sense (physics), you seem to be talking about information and its affect on other entities which are capable of interacting with it.

I can see how it could appear to you that I'm talking about information based on my emotion analogy and you're right, information can definately impact someone negatively or positively, but here I'm actually talking about energy (or aura if you will). Everyone has a fortress of energy that encompasses their mind and body and the energy changes based on the lives they lead, their emotions and the thoughts in their heads. If you've never felt this energy or don't believe it exists it would be hard to understand where I'm coming from.

I know it sounds like I'm spewing a bunch of new age psycho-babble, but I believe that when an individual dies they leave an energetic impression on the world around them in a negative or positive manor based on their mindset as they depart. Not an immediate impression. A gradual impression. Like a dispersal of energy.

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Re: truth

Quote:

I have the feeling that the experience of "life passing before one's eyes" before dying might have something to do with appreciating one's life as some kind of very worthwhile "work of art". I think each of our lives is a powerfully meaningful "entity." Every life is worth an epic novel. And I suspect that each of us would like to realize and experience that fact when on the edge of extinction.

That's a really interesting thought. Makes a lot of sense. I recently read a pamphlet in a hospice that talked about how when the final stage of the dying process is reached by your loved one you should accept that the reversal of their illness is an impossibility, say your goodbyes to them and tell them that it's ok to let go. It went on to remark that there's a good chance that they will try to hang on for as long as they can because of an unresolved issue that they can't let go of. Therefore, giving them permission to go and assuring them of your love for them, will make their transition much easier. But like rosborne said, what if noone's around or what if these attempts at calming you loved one fail and the person dies feeling alone or unresolved? I can't help but think that the struggle in ones mind just before departure has everything to do with what happens after your gone. Especailly since you can look at everyones life as a work of art.

Quote:

but I do not believe in the doctrine of reincarnation as a literal transfer of an "ego" from one body to another. You refer to it as some kind of energy transfer (Rosborne's information transfer might be better).

I know how it sounds like I'm talking about reincarnation, but I'm trying not to make it sound like it's a soul going into a soul type of process. Or someone passing away and then being reborn in another form. It's a very strong aura that is dispersed into the air that becomes absorbed by everything around it. Not just in the same room or same building, but everywhere.

Quote:

But I do think that one should be concerned with creating an ddep acceptance of one's mortality and the meaningfulness of one last moments. Once we have accepted our inevitable death (emotionally not just theoretically) and perhaps even look forward to it, as Huxley did, the very quality of our life is greatly enhanced.

Absolutely. That's why I'm so intriuged by this thread. It will most likely become for most people the most profound event that will take place during the lifetime.

Thanks for your reply, JL!!

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edgarblythe wrote:

Anyway, I don't care to dance around with hairsplitting thrust and parry discussions - Just wanted to weigh in and now I will back out. I will read some of the thread from time to time, though.

Edgar don't be silly, I thought you wanted to engage in a discussion .... I'm sorry if I mis-read you but I feel my questions were to the point and not really thrust and parry. Please join in whenever you like.

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Doug, being handed a mirror when we are 60 would make us see that we are human, with aging bodies, just like all the rest of the folks with whom we share this existence. If we could still reason, that is, and our soul had not already started to shrivel and fade from the ravages of time and dementia.

I wish I could believe in pure consciousness, but the souls that I have observed recently seem to be as mortal as the bodies they inhabit. Too much time spent in a nursing home lately, I guess. <sigh>

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Naw, Doug; I just wanted to tell you that life ends with death and then move on. My personal take on it. No petty emotion involved.

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Ah my friend if that were true, the planet , perhaps the universe would all be dead by now.

But, comme vous souhaitez.

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Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

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