Gelisgesti, why would leave your beloved Bubba out of your signature? He sure belongs there.
Where do we go after we die? Into the ground (or in a vase on someone's mantle, depending on what you prefer). There is no sound evidence to point to anything else. We decompose, worms and bacteria turn our humanoid form into skeletal remains, people put flowers on our graves every year (if we're lucky) and dogs piss on our gravestones every once in a while. Morbid? Maybe. True? I think so.
None of us existed for the past 15 billion years. Why is it so hard to imagine not existing for another 15 billion.
Greg
skeptic, My option is for cremation, and my ashes spread in the Pacific Ocean.

Our mother, a christian, feared cremation.
Try to realize the worm food is but one aspect in our totality. If the seed is not part of the flower .... then what?
Tao is obscured when men understand only one pair of opposites, or concentrate only on a partial aspect of being. Then clear expression also becomes muddled by mere wordplay, affirming this one aspect and denying all the rest.
The pivot of Tao passes through the center where all affirmations and denials converge. He who grasps the pivot is at the still-point from which all movements and oppositions can be seen in their right relationship...
Abandoning all thought of imposing a limit or taking sides, he rests in direct intuition.
Hellooooooo .......... anybody there????
Quote:==
Life After Death
11/17/2003 15:20
Probably the authorities in medicine made a wrong conclusion saying that the person would immediately die if his/her brain had "the traumas incompatible with life" as doctors call them.
A professional executor said in an interview for "Ochnaya Stavka" newspaper: "You mustn't execute by shooting at the back of the head. It does not guarantee instant death, but can cause terrible tortures to the sentenced person. A shoot should be made at the organs important for life". The executor did not make more precise which organs exactly, but obviously did not relate brain to them.
There are examples when people did not die after getting horrible brain traumas incompatible with life. Such a unique case was described in the medical bulletin of New York.
A tugboat was pulling a barge having two layers of big boxes on it. When the tugboat was approaching the bridge, the sailor decided to check if the upper layer fastening was tight enough. He climbed up the boxes and raised his head above them. The sailor turned his back to the bridge and could not see that he was in danger as the barge was approaching the bridge. The sharp lower edge of the bridge beam cut the part of the man skull 5-6 centimeters over the right eye.
Then a wonder happened. Despite the bad wound, the sailor was still alive after being brought to the hospital. The doctors started treating him. They had no hope of bringing the unusual patient back to life, but suddenly the man opened his mouth and asked what had happened to him. After the doctors finished bandaging the head which had three fourths of its former size, the man stepped down from the surgery desk and wanted to put on his robe saying he wanted to go home. He was not allowed to leave the hospital. However- two months later the sailor returned to his work on the boat. The trauma did not seem to influence his abilities: he was quite healthy, only sometimes dizziness bothered him. Only 26 years after the accident he got his left arm and leg partly paralyzed.
One could doubt if this story was real considering that it happened long time ago. But medicine has similar amazing stories relating to more recent time. For example, in1935 a baby with no brain was born in St Vincent hospital in New York. The baby lived, ate and cried like others for 27 days. Its behavior was normal, and the absence of brain was discovered only after it died and was dissected.
In 1957 doctors Yan Bryuel and George Olbi made a sensational report for the American Association of Psychologists. They had a successful operation on the 39-year-old patient whose right cerebral hemisphere was removed. Surprisingly, he soon recovered and did not lose his mental abilities which were beyond the average level.
In 1940 a 14-year-old boy was taken to Dr Ortiz's hospital. The boy suffered from bad headaches. Before his death two weeks later he did not lose conscientiousness or mental abilities. The doctors were surprised to see when dissecting his dead body that malignant tumor replaced almost all his brain tissue. In fact, for a long time the boy had had no brain.
In New England (the USA) 25-year-old worker Phineas Gage had an accident during excavation works. When a dynamite charge exploded, a massive metal stcik of 109 centimeters in length and 3 centimeters in diameter skewered the man's cheek, knocked out his molar tooth, passed through his brain and skull and fell down several meters away from the man. Amazingly, Gage neither was killed nor became disabled. He lost the eye and tooth, but had the same mental abilities, memory, the ability to speak and control his body.
In all the cases cited above, cerebral tissue was damaged as a result of traumas or illnesses, therefore the "man's commander" was supposed not to be able to execute its functions of a thinking apparatus and a human body life functions regulator. Different people in different times could live with no brain. Meanwhile, in some cases a person could stay alive with no head, which seems to be absolutely impossible from the medicine viewpoint.
Alive after death.
At the beginning of 50s half of the students in the Military Institute of Foreign languages were veterans. For the summer we used to go for training to military camps, where we had the tradition of telling stories in the smoking room at night. The story told by sergeant-major Boris Luchkin was unusual.
During the search in the territory occupied by German fascists, the lieutenant, their reconnaissance group commander, treaded on the "frog" v jumping mine. A special charge made such mines jump and explode at the height of 1-1,5 meters. After the explosion, the mine fragment cut the head of the lieutenant who was walking in front of Luchkin and in this way shielded him from being killed. However, as the sergeant-major said, the beheaded commander did not fell, but continued standing. He had only a chin and a lower jaw. The head above them was took away by the explosion. The terrifying body unbuttoned its quilted jacket and took out the map for the group assignment route, pouring the blood onto it. The killed lieutenant stretched the map out to Luchkin and only after this fell on the ground.
The search was terminated. The reconnaissance group had to return to its base. The body of the commander caring about his soldiers even after his death,>
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was brought by them to the regiment base and buried next to the regiment staff command. At that time nobody believed Luchkin' shocking story. When the explosion took place, all the other scouts of the group were walking behind, away from the scene and therefore later could not confirm the sergeant-major words.
After hearing this story in the smoking room, we did not believe it either. But today I know about many similar cases, and my attitude to them has changed.
Medieval chronicles say that in 1636 king Lyudvig Bavarski sentenced to death a certain Dits von Schaunburg and his for officers because they arranged a rebellion against the king. When the convicted men were brought to the execution spot, Lyudvig Bavarski followed the knight tradition and asked von Schaunburg if he had the last wish. The convicted man asked the king to put him and his officers in a row at the distance of 8 steps from each other and cut his head first. He said that after being beheaded he would run past his officers and asked the monarch to grant the life those of them he would pass.
Village residents are well aware that when a cock has his head cut he should be held by hands for a while. Otherwise the cock can start running around the yard, pouring all over with his blood. Von Shaunburg probably knew about this phenomenon and decided to use it for saving the lives of his loyal officers. The king, however, was not familiar with village life and this phenomenon, he laughed and agreed to grant the rebel-s wish. Noble Dits put his companions in a row, knelt and put his head onto the executioner's block. As soon the executor cut his head with the axe, the body jumped on its feet and ran past the terrified officers. Only after passing the last of them, the body fell onto the ground. The shocked king decided the devil made this, but still followed his promises and granted life to the officers.
British Defense Ministry Archives have the report of Corporal Robert Crickshow, saying about one more case of "Life after death". It has the information about the fantastic circumstances of Yorkshire regular regiment unit commander Captain Terence Malveni death during conquering India by the British at the beginning of 19th century. It happened when hand-to-hand fight was taking place during British assault to Fort Amary. The captain cut the enemy soldier-s head with his sabre, but the dead body did not fell onto the ground. It lifted the rifle, shot point-blankly at the British officer's heart and only after this fell.
Reporter Igor Kaufman gives even more amazing example. A man was gathering mushrooms in the forest in Petergof area and found an explosive device. He decided to look at it and put it closer to his face. The explosion happened and cut the man-s head. However, he was able to walk two hundred meters with no head, including three meters along the narrow path over the brook, and then died. The reporter emphasizes that the story is real: all the materials about it are stored in the criminal police archives.
Sudden lose of brain do not cause instant death of a person. What operates his body making it commit intelligent actions?
Divine Essence of the Soul
Before answering the above question, let us remember the main issue of philosophy, which has existed for centuries v the argument between materialists and idealists. Idealists say spirit, consciousness, intelligence and psychic come first, and matter, nature and physical body come after them. Materialists insist matter which was created by nobody comes first.
Until recently scientists said there is no God-Creator. However, opinion change, and contemporary science completely changed its viewpoint about the God-Creator or Holy Spirit.
President of Russian Academy of Science Yuri Osipov made a surprising statement:
"The ideas of space, time and cause changed, the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics were discovered, and the world no longer seems to be a machine, where all can be predicted and there is no room for God. Today the science of Space poses the Universe origin issue which has been solved by Theology long time ago. Was there anything before the moment when time was equal to zero? If not, how could the Universe appear? And the scientists come to the conclusion that Creator exists- Composing any logical scientific system inevitably brings one to the thought of existence of absolute life or God".
For a long time scientists refused to discuss the issue of soul calling it "the invention of priests". Meanwhile, the people-s folklore have always admitted the existence of the soul. It attributed to the soul the most important part in human's life. This can be seen through existence of many sayings and expressions connected with the concept of the soul, in the language.
Parapsychologists call this "divine spark" as energetic essence. It is not a matter of definitions. The most important thing is that people cannot to predict God's thoughts and deeds in a scientific way. One can try to guess in vain why the soul is given to him, but the facts cited in this story prove: in extreme situations this "energetic essence" starts operating the human body replacing the brain, and only after a while leaves the body. It happens not often, probably only when the person is supposed to complete a certain mission designated by God. I can see no other explanation of such phenomena.
Sergei Demkin
Source: "Tainaya Vlast" newspaper
SOURCE
Sounds like this thread is in the same situation, Ge!
How many lives does this forum have? LOL
Frank Apisa wrote:Sounds like this thread is in the same situation, Ge!
Naw, I been lazy .... found this halfway between Ripleys and the meta physical.
Life doing all right by you?
Jesus, Moses and God were out playing golf one day. Jesus teed off first, and the ball flew straight over the fairway, landed in the green and rolled to within a couple feet of the hole. Moses hit second, and his ball also soared and landed close to the hole. Both looked over at God.God took a few practice swings, then let loose on his ball. The ball flew off into the rough. Just then, a squirrel jumped over, grabbed the ball in his mouth and started running across the fairway. An eagle swooped down and grabbed the squirrel in its claws, but before it could get too far, a bolt of lightning struck the bird. The ball fell and a sudden gust of wind dropped it directly into the hole. Jesus glared at God and said: "Hey, are you here to play golf or just screw around?"
I don't know how you can kill an 'eagle' and still get a hole in one.
Hi Doug, how's it going?
Seems the Russians are as prone to urban legends as anyone else. Most of these stories are as patently false as the one about a sun and civilization inside the Earth. Phineas Gage was indeed injured by a tamping rod, but did not have the same mental abilities afterward:
Quote:Some months after the accident, probably in about the middle of 1849, Phineas felt strong enough to resume work. But because his personality had changed so much, the contractors who had employed him would not give him his place again. Before the accident he had been their most capable and efficient foreman, one with a well-balanced mind, and who was looked on as a shrewd smart business man. He was now fitful, irreverent, and grossly profane, showing little deference for his fellows. He was also impatient and obstinate, yet capricious and vacillating, unable to settle on any of the plans he devised for future action. His friends said he was "No longer Gage."
I'm okay, Ge. Hope all is well with you and yours.
Jesus and Moses were playing golf.
At a par three with a big pond guarding the front approach, Jesus prepares to hit.
Moses notices that Jesus is holding onto a seven iron and says: "Yo, Jesus, you need 175 yards of carry to get over the pond -- you'll never make it with a 7 iron.
Jesus responds, "I watched Tiger Woods play this hole last month. He used a 7 iron." And he hits the shot -- which falls short and goes into the pond.
"Go get that ball for me, Moses," says Jesus, "I'm gonna take a mulligan."
So Moses,shaking his head, walks over to the pond, parts the water and retrieves the ball for Jesus -- who tees it up again and prepares to hit it a second time.
Moses stops him and says, "Hey Jesus, you still got the 7 iron. You ain't gonna make it with a 7 iron."
"I'm telling ya, I saw Tiger Woods play this hole and he used a 7 iron." And he hits the ball again.
Naturally, it falls short and dumps into the pond.
Jesus looks over to Moses who immediately walks over to the golf cart, sits down, and declares: "I ain't going for that ball!"
So Jesus, determined to take one more mulligan, goes to retrieve the ball himself.
And while he is out walking on the water of the pond looking for the ball -- the group playing behind catches up and walks up to the tee box. One of the guys looks at what's going on in awe and says to Moses:
"Who does that guy think he is, Jesus Christ?"
"No," says Moses, "he is Jesus Christ. He thinks he's Tiger Woods."
(An edited Jack Nicklaus joke)
About death.
************
>
> A group of rural neighbors wanted to get together on a regular basis and socialize.
> As a result, four couples formed a dinner club and agreed to meet for dinner at a different neighbors' houses each month. Of course the lady
> of the house was to prepare the meal.
>
> When it came time for Jimmy and Susie Brown to have the dinner at their house, like most women, Susie wanted to outdo all the others and
> prepare a meal that was the best that any of
> them had ever been served.
>
> A few days before the big event, Susie got out her cookbook and decided to have mushroom smothered steak. When she went to the store to buy some fresh mushrooms, she found the price was more than she wanted to pay.
>
> She then told her husband, "We aren't going to have any fresh mushrooms because they are too expensive."
>
> He said, "Why don't you go down by the creek and pick some wild mushrooms?
> There are plenty of them right on the bank of the creek."
>
> She said, "No, I don't want to do that, because I have heard that wild mushrooms can be poisonous."
>
> He then said, "I don't think so. I see the varmints eating them all the time and it never has affected them."
>
> After thinking about this, Susie decided to give this a try and got in the pickup and went down to the creek and picked some. She brought the wild mushrooms back home and washed and sliced them to get them ready go over her smothered steak. Then she went out on the back porch and got Ol' Spot's bowl and gave him a double handful. She even put some bacon grease on them to
> make them tasty.
>
> Ol' Spot didn't slow down until he had eaten every bite. All morning long Susie watched him and the wild mushrooms didn't seem to affect him, so she decided to use them.
>
> The meal was a great success, and Susie even hired a lady to help her serve.
She had on a white apron and a little cap on her head. It was first class.
>
> After everyone had finished they all began to kick back and relax and socialize.
> The men were visiting and the women started to
> gossip a bit.
>
> About this time the lady who helped serve came in from the kitchen and whispered in Susie's ear. She said, "Mrs. Brown, Spot just died."
>
> With this news, Susie went into hysterics. After she finally calmed down, she called the doctor and told him what had happened.
>
> The doctor said, "It could be bad, but I think we can take care of it. I will call for an ambulance and a couple of EMTs and I will be there as quick as I can get there. We will pump out everyone's stomach and everything will be fine.
> Just keep them all there and keep them calm."
> It wasn't long until they could hear the wail of the siren as the ambulance was coming down the road. When they got there, the EMTs got out with their suitcases and a stomach pump and the doctor arrived shortly thereafter.
>
> One by one they took each person into the master bedroom and pumped out their stomach.
> After the last one was finished, the doctor came out and said, I think everything will be fine now, and he left.
>
> They were all looking pretty peaked sitting around the living room, and about this time the lady who had helped serve the dinner came in and said,
> "You know, that fellow that ran over Ol' Spot never even stopped."
HI Terry! Yes some of those articles are more than a little strange.
Fun e jokes youse guys
Anybody out there know anything about wraiths andf if they have anythingn to do with the subject matter here?
Where do you go when you die?
I just found about this forum in an Abuzz thread and I am liking what I am seeing. In addition to Abuzz's technical decline, the lack of any centralized discipline has taken that forum to unacceptable lows.
With its newly revived message distributing, I started a new thread on vulgarity and that is what I got in return!
I read the first three pages of this interesting thread but have not made it through the remaining 22 long pages so when I post, if I need to be pointed to something previously said, I will understand.
I will be suggesting a different approach to the question being neither faith based nor science based. See you all soon.
hsweet, WELCOME to A2K. You'll love it here; promise.

c.i.
Heaven
In discussions of a spiritual nature, it is claimed that faith is the only option as science is unable to prove or disprove. But there is another approach. And that is the examination of the claims in a historical or mythological context.
In the question of heaven have you ever noticed that heaven and "the heavens" are linguistically very close? This is no coincidence. In the ancient world celestial objects were deified and therefore, at end of life, that was the most desirable real estate.
We are all familiar with the Christian belief that Jesus rose up to that place. But the same was earlier claimed for Zoroaster and for Buddha. Clearly there was a long standing belief about the nature of the sky above us.
But modern science has shown us that the heavens are not what they were once envisioned to be and that the celestial bodies are not worthy of deification. (Even the word celestial has a dual meaning.) Yet the notion of heaven "up there" has become so ingrained that it simply will not go away. Vestiges exist in popular form such as song lines like "I pray to stars above" and in the common body posturing of gazing upwards when referring to God. And of course, the influence of "heavenly bodies" on our personal affairs in the form of Astrology is alive and well.
We want to believe in an afterlife so badly that we will overlook the errors in the earlier world view and add revisions to so that it fits in with contemporary thought. But we shouldn't. What was wrong in the first place can't be patched up to be made right. Shakespeare put it best: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."
In my next post I will examine why it is that the belief in an afterlife is so widely held.