Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

truth
Rosborne, I agree with what you say about the differences between dream and reality, BUT let me be picky. It may be just a semantic quibble, but a dream is a reality, a REAL dream. Similarly a mirage is a REAL mirage and that is fine so long as we do not confuse it with a body of water. Remember the movie, A Beautiful Mind? The insane scientist literally came to his senses and saw his delusions for what they were. And even though the voices persisted they (supposedly) ceased to be a problem because he knew them for what they were (mirage not water; dream realities not awakening realities).

a
CI writes:



Here's something to chew on: according to today's local newspaper, five to seven percent of Americans have mental health problems. That's not a small number; we're looking at over 16 million of our citizens with mental health problems. I think that's a conservative number. For those of us that "think" we're sane, most of us still perceive things wrongly like the examples given above. We seem to hear or see things the way we want to see and hear things. Our reality is really in question if our perceptions are skewed on important aspects of our lives. What does it matter where we end up after we die, if our reality is not reality? c.i.

#1
Could you supply a reference to your information.

#2
The 2% range in the figures you quote hardly seems scientific ... that would mean that 2% of the people in the study that are tagged to be mentally ill, are not. Conversely, 2% of the people tagged to be healthy, are ill. I hope the article quoted can shed some light on how the numbers were derived.


CI
For those of us that "think" we're sane, most of us still perceive things wrongly like the examples given above.

#3
More confusion ... even with no manifestation of a problem those that think they are sane, are not?


CI
What does it matter where we end up after we die, if our reality is not reality? c.i.

#4
As hard as I try I can not make sense of this statement. You start out discussing mental illness, which generally has an organic etiology, then end up with the conclusion that it doesn't matter where we end up if we are mentally ill or that somehow a corpse has a sense of reality.

Please post your references. It may come as no suprise that some people will make up things to bear out their side of an argument.



roseborne writes:

Oooo, good one CI


What was the good one?

Gels, I'm not here to respond to anybody's third degree on A2K. Go pick on somebody else. I'm not playing. c.i.

no references huh?

Gelisgesti,

It wasn't good for you? It was good for me.

See how ambiguous communication can be? We both got completely different value from CI's comment.

JL,

But most people *do* confuse the mirage with the body of water. It may not be accurate for them to do so, but it is often the case. My particular comment reflected the idea that most people treat their perception of reality as reality without every noting that there might be a difference between the two.

Most people who claim to have seen a UFO, or to have had a life after death experience, or a revelation, or even an inaccurate memory, don't question their own perception. They believe it. And they treat it as reality.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this... just stating the obvioius I guess. Oh well

Best Regards,

Local paper is the San Jose Mercury News, also known as the "Murky News". Stop picking on ci, he's one of the good guys on A2K, even when I don't agree with him.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/6364338.htm

truth
C.I.,
Rosborne, I agree and understand. I was just quibbling to kill time.
More play: I HAVE seen UFOs--unidentifying flying objects. I'm very confident they were not alien space crafts (because Mexico doesn't have any).

Gels, If you want references, ask nicely. c.i.

a
Asking for a reference is picking?
Sincewhen?

Rosborne



Very true.

That is the notion I've tried to convey to Fresco on many, many occasions -- but have failed to do so.

I like the way you worded the notion here. I may steal it and use it next time Fresco and I go at it.

It's not clear what the article in the Murky News is using for a definition of "Mental Illness" to generate their statistics. I suppose the term could include people with anger management problems or excessive guilt, or insecurities. These things may seem minor, but they can distort personalities and drive lives astray, even though they are rarely considered to be serious mental illnesses.

Some people might even consider those of us who discuss the nature of reality and perception to be a bit out of kilter. For most people, reality is as obvious as the keyboard at your fingertips and the air you breath, so to discuss it would seem ridiculous.

Maybe we're part of that 5%, just in a unique form

Evidently you have a get out of jail free card so don't bother, I don't want to pick.

rosbourne, Actually, the article says "serious mental illness," but failed to define what that means. I'm not about to jump into that fray. That's the reason why I just used their statistics in making my post; it's up to them to defend those numbers - not me. c.i.

If sanity is determined by how closely your perception of reality matches the group norm, what if the majority view is wrong? Maybe people in asylums are the only ones who see the world as it really is.

Perhaps the only way most of us can avoid suicide is to believe that the universe makes sense and our lives have meaning, or else buy into an attractive reality created by someone else.

And who cares where we end up, if life and death are nothing but illusions?

Doug, the 5-7% is a government estimate. A range is given because it is thought that there are many people out there with serious mental disorders who have not been diagnosed and therefore cannot be accurately counted.

Here is a link to the executive summary of the report, including definitions:

President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health - Executive Summary

I see, use the statistics from an article on mental illness to bear out a theory on life after death ........

Freaking brilliant ... now why didn't I think of that?

Terry, It could well be that the majority perception is wrong. If we look at different cultures and groups, what may seem insane to us may be sane to them - and visa-versa. All of our perceptions are influenced by our environment and genetics. However, if the majority perceives those in asylums to be insane even though their perception is closer to reality, that won't change the fact that the perceptions of the majority will rule. I'd rather be living on the 'outside.' c.i.

Hi Terry, you might have something there. Could it be that the 'truth'requires an 'uncommon' sanity?

c.i., surely it is true that the dividing line between normal and abnormal is so fine as to defy definition. One out-of-line gesture from a person walking toward you and you "know" that person is not normal. But think how one small variation in his gestures could make him "normal." E.g., what if the person wore earphones and was preceivably responding to the sounds he was hearing. Aha. What if he was hearing nothing? But we would infer that his gestures and footwork were due to sounds coming from his earphones?

Kara, People hear voices all the time without anybody saying anything or any sound coming from electronics. For them, it's real. That may even be "normal," but I have never personally experienced "hearing voices." c.i.