Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

If we knew the answer to the 'question,' there wouldn't be a question. c.i.

It is said:
People who are skillful in caring
for the life that has been given to them
travel abroad without fear of wild ox or tiger,
and enter a battle without concern for sharp weapons.
There is no place for the wild ox to thrust its horns,
there is no place for the tiger to put its claws,
there is no place for a weapon to lodge.

How is this so?
Because, there is no place for Death to enter in!

-----------------------------


Few, some but few, deny the occupation of their clay shell by spirit, soul or other entity that continues past the grave. The soul that is prized by God and Devil alike many say, will survive flaming hell fire to allow an eternity of suffering earned by a life of un repented sin.

Yet, while understanding the clay is left behind as the spirit moves forward, men will choose to drag the useless clay carcass along with them on the sole basis of familiarity and fear of losing something that they cannot describe.

Few even look for an answer.

a
No, I have not flipped out .... just a thought that I have been wanting to pursue.

It seems that any discussion relative to the subject of this thread begins from the 'clay' point of view which, is a reasonable starting point, but IMHO should be considered as only half the story ... unless of course you consider life to begin and end in clay with no consideration of a spiritual or higher meaning.

Can anyone tell me why, the spiritual is not generally considered in a conversation regarding death and the here after?

Why shouldn't the spirit be thought of as the yolk and the clay the shell?

passage
Frankly, Gel. Whenever I try to read your posts and come across reference to "clay" I give up. I need to know what you mean by this metaphor (finitude, flesh, materialism, mortality, etc.?). Otherwise I just get lost and make no effort at all, as you may have noticed. Now I follow the arguments of Frank and Tywvel carefully because they are understandable, often, however, after great effort. But all my efforts to understand you have failed miserably. Maybe it's me, not you. But HELP!

clay
Hay JL, thank you for ther kindness of inquiring in regard to my metaphoric disability

I use metaphor to explain my thoughts, because I think in metaphors ..... like in a dream word thoughts are revealed to the dreamer in symbolism ... tower = phalic .... tunnel = .... well, you get the idea.

I wish more peoplel would ask.

The clay?


The Rubaiyat
By Omar Khayyam




XLIV

Why, if the Soul can fling the Dust aside,
And naked on the Air of Heaven ride,
Were't not a Shame--were't not a Shame for him
In this clay carcase crippled to abide?

XLV

'Tis but a Tent where takes his one day's rest
A Sultan to the realm of Death addrest;
The Sultan rises, and the dark Ferrash
Strikes, and prepares it for another Guest.


LXXIII

With Earth's first Clay They did the Last Man knead,
And there of the Last Harvest sow'd the Seed:
And the first Morning of Creation wrote
What the Last Dawn of Reckoning shall read.


XXXVII

For I remember stopping by the way
To watch a Potter thumping his wet Clay:
And with its all-obliterated Tongue
It murmur'd--"Gently, Brother, gently, pray!"

XXXVIII

And has not such a Story from of Old
Down Man's successive generations roll'd
Of such a clod of saturated Earth
Cast by the Maker into Human mould?
text file

passage
Thanks, Gel. That does help. But it reminds me of one of the early StarTrek episodes where Capt. Kirk was stuck in a combative mode with an alien who could only speak in terms of metaphors. Their "cognitive styles" were so disparate that they couldn't get along at all. Hope that doesn't turn out to be our case. Metaphors, to my way of thinking, have great value in communication. But they have their limits; they must augment communication, not dominate it.

But, aren't 'love me' and 'don't hate me' words that while are diametric elicit a spectrum of the same emotion with the degree of response initiated by recipient ...... 'take me I'm yours' or 'not even with a ten and a half foot pole'.

By using 'clay' as a metaphor for the human I hope to elicit a response favorable to the discussion's anticipated vein... our true nature.

Granted, metaphors take more thought yet through that mechanism are less likely to flavor a response.

passage
I have always thought that metaphors are the essence of poetic expression, less so in expository prose. To the extent that the latter is intended to have "deep" and "aesthetic" value, metaphor will used. But the principal virtue of good expository prose is clarity--and of course this is not the same as simplicity. Some writing is difficult to understand because of the nature of the ideas. But this is not necessarily because the writing is unclear.

That's if we can comprehend the message. c.i.

a
JL, one of the greatest books ever written would not be considererd as such without the use of metaphor ..... can you guess which one?

War and Peace?

passage
No, C.I., TV Guide.
Seriously, Gel. I'm not diminishing the value of metaphor. On the contrary. But look how misunderstood is The Book. Do you intend your posts to be hermeneutic challenges?

a
JL, had to look that one up. No, my aim is not to confuse neither to recite ..... more to prod the reader into their own interpretation or realizing teir mind.

Th book is the Bible. One passage can have 100 meanings.

passage

a
Some things exist even if you don't believe in them.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

Tommy the thunder train says, "The witches have forty-two eyes."

The first quote pertains to the subject I think.

Will these thoughts cease to exist after we die?

Re: a


I could not agree more.

Of course, the converse is also true.

Some things don't exist no matter how many people "believe" they do.

Frank, That's for sure! c.i.

a
Shouldn't you be out playing golf!
OK, you answered the tough one ....... now, will these thoughts be around after we are gone?

P.S. nothing religious about this one