Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

There are no other people.

As Allan Watts said, "And here you were thinking you were interacting with others".

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twyvel wrote:

There are no other people.

As Allan Watts said, "And here you were thinking you were interacting with others".

I said I would point out any other comments you made that appear to be more the result of a belief system than actual knowledge or experience.

"There are no other people" is such a comment.

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Frank wrote:

Quote:

I said I would point out any other comments you made that appear to be more the result of a belief system than actual knowledge or experience.

"There are no other people" is such a comment

Yes.

Though I'll say that I do think that sages and others are correct about the nature of this existence; i.e. that it's a mental construct.

But I'm not prepared at this time to say I know I know that, though I probably do.

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That line really works well with the ladies. I'll see what happens the next time I'm doing the nasty and say "You know, you're not really here."

I'll post back the results if I survive.

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cjh, Don't forget to pick on blondes. c.i.

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whew

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cjhsa wrote:

Quote:

That line really works well with the ladies. I'll see what happens the next time I'm doing the nasty and say "You know, you're not really here."

And you might add, "We're doing the nasty with our-self."

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r
Twyvel said:
To be focused 'outward' is a kind of unconsciousness

Sounds like sleeping ..... Try, 'not conscious of being conscious'
When you are conscious of your perceptions, you are conscious of being conscious.

When animals communicate there is lot of posturing, grunts with eons old meanings, in short not much cerebral gets through. A few examples should arrive shortly.

Souls have no need to communicate, each soul has the knowledge of the other

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truth
Hey, guys, am I the only one who hasn't received any updates from A2K today? That's been the way with Abuzz for months now, but, please, NOT HERE!
Anyway, Frank, do you really think that Twyvel BELIEVES there are no other people in the usual sense of the phrase? He undoubtedly means it IN A SENSE that is esoteric to you, and to me for that matter. That "sense" is not a belief; it is something he sees, an inSIGHT. From the outside, when one talks ABOUT one's insights, that does come off as belief. You're right there.
What's the other phrase he used? To be 'focused' outwards is a kind of unconsciousness. Hmm. What could he have seen to lead to such an expression? Perhaps, something like We are AWARE only when we focused on OUR consciousness. But the problem then seems to be that he's contradicting an earlier statement, namely that we can't observe our observations, or, by extension, be conscious of our consciousness. But we'll either have to work on that subjectively or ask him for help in the matter. I doubt that he can help us. The insight is too subjective, too much a matter of personal knowledge for him to share it, to make it public.
What do you think, Twyvel?

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Gelistgesti writes...

Quote:

Sounds like sleeping ..... Try, 'not conscious of being conscious'
When you are conscious of your perceptions, you are conscious of being conscious.

An eye can see, but an eye cannot see itself seeing.

Quote:

Souls have no need to communicate, each soul has the knowledge of the other

Probably because there's only one.

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JLNobody wrote:

Quote:

....To be 'focused' outwards is a kind of unconsciousness. Hmm. What could he have seen to lead to such an expression?

Do you think to be a dreamt character caught up in a dream without realizing it is a kind of unconsciousness? If so, and if this is a dream, most of us are asleep during most if not all of our waking states. Life as one long sleep, in which I had a dream that I thought I was awake.

Quote:

Perhaps, something like We are AWARE only when we focused on OUR consciousness. But the problem then seems to be that he's contradicting an earlier statement, namely that we can't observe our observations, or, by extension, be conscious of our consciousness.

No I don't think it's a contradiction.

Actually it's a form of meditation JL, to try to look at the looker,.......though it's futile.

To attempt to turn the awareness on itself. The attempt by awareness to observe itself turns the attention away from thoughts, and stops them from rising.

I don't like being unconscious. I don't like having my attention focused on a task, taking it very seriously for any long duration. Makes me feel like an idiot. (no judgements of others being made)

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a
Gelistgesti writes...

Quote:
Sounds like sleeping ..... Try, 'not conscious of being conscious'
When you are conscious of your perceptions, you are conscious of being conscious.

Twyvel answered:
An eye can see, but an eye cannot see itself seeing.

Gelistgesti writes
To be correct you would have to say 'an eye, in order to see itself seeing would have to regress due to the constant movement of time since, as clay creatures, we are bound to the physics of clay'. Then I would agree. As a Spirit you are not bound to clay, as your answer 'Probably because there's only one.' would indicate.

Ask a blind what he sees and he will tell you what he is conscious of, that is sight without seeing, sight without the encumbrance's of clay

Gelistgesti writes
Quote:
Souls have no need to communicate, each soul has the knowledge of the other

Twyvel answers:
Probably because there's only one.

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Clay is to the soul as ice is to water.

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Re: truth

JLNobody wrote:

Anyway, Frank, do you really think that Twyvel BELIEVES there are no other people in the usual sense of the phrase?

I have no idea -- but my guess is he "believes" there is just one.

What is important is that he "believes."

That is what I have been saying all along. He is sharing a belief system -- a belief system in which he is so thoroughly immersed, he probably cannot even recognize it as a belief system anymore.

And like all belief systems -- he is merely guessing.[/quote]

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We are all guessing. There isn't enough reliable information to determine the truth. c.i.

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Frank wrote:

Quote:

I have no idea -- but my guess is he "believes" there is just one.

What is important is that he "believes."

That is what I have been saying all along. He is sharing a belief system -- a belief system in which he is so thoroughly immersed, he probably cannot even recognize it as a belief system anymore.

And like all belief systems -- he is merely guessing.

In regards to the "just one" I have already said I am not prepared at this time to say I know I know.

As for as your statement....

He is sharing a belief system -- a belief system in which he is so thoroughly immersed, he probably cannot even recognize it as a belief system anymore.

I will remind you and others that it is a belief of yours. Now I know you don't like the word "belief" applied to what you say, but you use that word to describe what you think of others comments so fair is fair.

I, like others can recognize and distinguish a belief (system) from what is known but maybe not all of them and certainly not all of the time.

That there is such as thing as the physical world, that there is such a thing as "matter" is a belief, that I think most including Frank do not recognize as a belief. And for sure it is not recognized as a belief all of the time.

That you are your body is a belief that most don't recognize most of the time.

In as much as most of us are unaware of the truth (of the nature of the self) we are deluded, in a kind of dream land existence, after all if one is unaware of the truth one does not know what's actually going on. And in this case ignorance isn't bliss as much as it is pain and suffering and death.

I appreciate Franks agnostic discipline and agree with it, but it's important (if anything is important) to clarify the appearance that Frank is presenting; that I and others; theists, theists agnostics, deists, spiritualists, spiritual atheists etc. are any more diluted then anyone else. Some are some are not as 'delusions' cross all imaginary boundaries including agnosticism.

And it's not so much that one has to 'gain' truth as remove ignorance.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:

We are all guessing. There isn't enough reliable information to determine the truth. c.i.

A guess of yours cicerone which I suspect is incorrect.

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You have me at a disadvantage, Twyvel. Apparently you have read something that I have not written.

I steadfastly acknowledge that I do not know the nature of reality -- and I have acknowledge that I do not know if the thing we call the universe is actually something tangible -- or merely an illusion.

But apparently you have read something else.

Perhaps you would so kind as to point out where you got the idea that I am sharing a belief system. What specifically are you saying that I "believe?"

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truth
How frustrasting that I am not getting updates. Would someone tell me if you ARE or ARE NOT receiving any? Or do you have to just cruise the FORUMS section to see what is relevant to you as I do?

Frank, you insist that you do not know the nature of reality. That is, of course, correct--in a sense. But I insist that--in another sense--you DO know reality. You ARE reality every immediate experience you have, every breath you take, every thought you have (right or wrong) IS reality--it's not just "about" reality. And I suspect this is the difference between you and Twyvel (and me most of the time). We are describing/expressing our "reality"; you are discoursing about "reality". Ours must be described AS EXPERIENCE, not as an object of experience-- which entails a radically different kind knowledge or understanding. Yours must be explained as an object of thought (positive knowledge and understanding). Both perspectives are fine but different. The problem is that we are arguing most of the time past one another and nothing gets resolved because of it.

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Frank said:

Perhaps you would so kind as to point out where you got the idea that I am sharing a belief system.
What specifically are you saying that I "believe?"

One obvious answer is that you believe you have the right to believe in your right to believe in what you believe is right to believe in.

Question .... do other people have that same right?

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Passage ...... Where do you go after you die

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