There is no "meaning of life"

I have no idea why i'm here
So far i've survived.

I do look for a reason, though. I jump from researching basic science (reading books like The Field) - to discussing (with appropriate friends) ideas like the matrix - looking for some clue.
So far, all I've made up my mind about is that no 'gods' as such exist. Not in my perception of this world.

What's it all about Alfie?

The Zillion dollar question.

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CrazyDiamond wrote:

PoetSeductress wrote:
Oh, yes there is...

There is meaning of life.

Meaning is synonymous with purpose. Without a solid purpose, one has no motivation to live, be it by quality or quantity of years.

I wrote:
There is no meaning, but there is direction.

PoetSeductress,
If you would read my first post, you will find that I agree that life has purpose (direction). However, I don't know what this is that you're spewing about root purpose.

PoetSeductress wrote:
Love is the highest purpose of all human life, which affects all else.
Timberlandko wrote:
You want a higher purpose? OK - here it is; something's gotta be at the top of the food chain, and we're it

I agree with Timber's post on this one.

Very well, CrazyDiamond,

Purpose = Meaning / but it therefore means Direction. All three are the same. One cannot say there is not meaning yet acknowledge direction.

Your choice of words, such as "spewing", is inappropriate.

Root purpose: Please read my previous post, again, and notice who I was replying to, and what they said. You will then see from where the term "root purpose" came.

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There is no "meaning of life"

timberlandko wrote:

Poppycock, and ignorant, arrogant, elitist, self-delusional nonsense - life is life, human or otherwise. Some folks gotta tell themselves humans are special; thats where the specious reasoning comes in. Accepting that people are animals - nothing more, nothing less - does not change the human condition, it merely recognizes it. Imaginary freinds and higher purposes are of the same cloth, and the source of most of humankind's self-inflicted suffering and misery.

You want a higher purpose? OK - here it is; something's gotta be at the top of the food chain, and we're it.

Timber, I never said that human beings are superior in every way, to other creatures in the world. Note:

"This highest purpose isn't consciously known to other forms of forms of life. But to the human being, this inner knowing is most often familiar, and can be tapped and accentuated, via quiet meditation."

If you think this is arrogant, ignorant, elitist, and self-delusional, then that is only your opinion. I have great respect and love for all of life. I know that there are animals, for instance, that have abilities we don't have, or at least have not activated. I even believe that animals have spirits just as people do. In their own way, they feel love, joy, sadness, and they dream and think. But they are locked in their destiny and haven't the ability to rise and escape from their circumstances. Man, on the other hand, has this ability, if he so chooses to consciously connect with, tap into, and use it.

This reminds me of radical women who get upset when the topic of differences in men and women is addressed. They would like to think that both the male and female are equal in every respect, and take offense if those differences are made known. Likewise, there isn't a need to be ruffled when I bring up differences in animals and human beings. This is not being arrogant.

It sounds as if you are very disturbed and disgruntled by others' beliefs. I have no negativity toward yours. If that's the way you feel, then you have a right to your own opinion. But as you can tell, I haven't stooped to calling your ideas ignorant, arrogant, elitist, etc., as you have done at the very onset.

I don't mind discussing things with you in a civil manner, without resorting to over-emotional negative statements such is this. I respect your position, and I understand that we walk in different paths. It would be nice to hear the viewpoints of others, and compare notes. But I don't wish to fight. You may feel that not fighting is boring. If so, then you'll probably have more fun with someone else.

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Of course its my opinion, as is yours your opinion. Further it is my opinion there is no rational means by which to arive at a belief in the supernatural or metaphysical. I'm neither disturbed nor disgruntled by anyone's beliefs, though I'm often perturbed by the way some folks parade their beliefs. I happen to feel that the entire supreme being concept is a human construct, based in fear and uncertainty and wholly dependendant on itself for validation -which is to say wholly without validation. I feel no need for magic.

I'm not fighting with you, I'm challenging you, though if you want to deem that a fight and decline to participate, thats fine too. However, if you wish to rise to a challenge, I submit this one:

Demonstrate objectively that faith be differentiable from superstition.

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Life contains no a priori means; we create them.

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Bowell movement

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Yes, like bowel movements.

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timberlandko wrote:

Of course its my opinion, as is yours your opinion. Further it is my opinion there is no rational means by which to arive at a belief in the supernatural or metaphysical. I'm neither disturbed nor disgruntled by anyone's beliefs, though I'm often perturbed by the way some folks parade their beliefs. I happen to feel that the entire supreme being concept is a human construct, based in fear and uncertainty and wholly dependendant on itself for validation -which is to say wholly without validation. I feel no need for magic.

I'm not fighting with you, I'm challenging you, though if you want to deem that a fight and decline to participate, thats fine too. However, if you wish to rise to a challenge, I submit this one:

Demonstrate objectively that faith be differentiable from superstition.

Those are great questions, Timber. No one has ever asked me them before. I thought I might set aside a little time, tonight, and carefully think about it. I don't want to just put out anything, just to be quick. I'll try to get my answers formulated and written out before I go to bed. If not, I'll continue working on it, tomorrow.

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There's only one challenge to answer there, PoetS - demonstrate objectively that faith be differentiable from superstition.

Note the requirement of objectivity; obviated is any consideration of subjective social convention, whether positive or negative, ie: "Faith=a force for good, superstition=foolish ignorance", or anything of the like.

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The meaning to life is to oppose entropy.

The meaning of life is what you make it.

In a Forest Gump voice; "That's all I have to say about that".

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Do you mean that this "no meaning" means that there is "meaning" through the lack of "meaning" in some meaningful way?

In a Forest Gump voice; "Momma always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know
what you're gonna get."

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I disagree that meaning is synonymous with purpose. To me, meaning is the value of life. Why am I here? Because I am here.

I remember when I used to think of "what's the point of life?" It is because I saw that I will die one day that I thought about this. To me, it was this dread over my ageing and over certain things, hard situations or overdemanding thinking, that I find myself "feeling" as if life has no meaning.

I realize now that there is meaning in life. Meaning, not purpose. Why ask a purpose to everything? For the real dread comes not because of life, but because of this limited span in which we live our life.

Conditions may be tough, our desires may try to blind us, and those are what I find to be the few sources of angst.

If you think that life needs a purpose to be meaningful, then ask yourself what of the other state of being? Of not living? Is there a purpose in that? And if there's a heaven, then by the same logic, what is the purpose of heaven? We've come full circle.

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All meaning, all purpose, is entirely subjective. All of it.

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Ray wrote:

I remember when I used to think of "what's the point of life?" It is because I saw that I will die one day that I thought about this. To me, it was this dread over my ageing and over certain things, hard situations or overdemanding thinking, that I find myself "feeling" as if life has no meaning.

When I think about the planets, space and the empty vastness out there. When I think about the perfect conditions that are needed to create and sustain intelligent live, I see Earth (brightly lit and chucking out dance music) as a penny arcade in the wilderness.

It makes no sense at all. It shouldn't be there. It's all too perfect. All too convenient. All too 'comfortable.'

I wonder about that.

As for death, I'm not too concerned. Never did like penny arcades anyway.
And death is perhaps more about freedom (gain) than it is about loss.

Most interestingly - we all perceive things differently.

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If we decide to equate meaning with purpose in this question, then I must hold that the purpose (or meaning) of life is life itself. We do not live for any teleological plan's fulfillment. So I see no extrinsic purpose in life (agreeing with Ray), but with regard to meaning, I celebrate every sensation and heartbeat for what I see as their intrinsic value.

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I think there may be a meaning or purpose of life, but I have no idea what it is. There is a great possibility that there is no meaning or purpose of life, and it comes about just because.

I take a lot of pleasure in letting myself enjoy life for what it is, and no longer feeling the need to know an answer. I'm curious though, too see life in the bigger bigger picture, and to keep on the lookout for new levels to this life of mine and that is all around me. Maybe one day there will be a solid answer, but by that time we will have moved on to bigger questions anyhow.

There is a lot of freedom in being able to choose meaning for one's own life, whether or not anyone else thinks the choices are valid, and whether or not there are beliefs to build around the meaning.

All these words, and all I'm actually trying to say is that Life is in the Living of it. Part of life is mystery and space, and why fight it? Life would quickly grow boring, anyhow, if there were answers for everything. That would be 'death' or someothersuchthing. Not life as I know it.

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There is no "meaning of life"

flushd wrote:

...All these words, and all I'm actually trying to say is that Life is in the Living of it. Part of life is mystery and space, and why fight it? Life would quickly grow boring, anyhow, if there were answers for everything. That would be 'death' or someothersuchthing. Not life as I know it.

You have just stated very eloquently, flushd, the meaning (and purpose) of life... to live it, and to live it to the fullest, abundantly.

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...
... Life's meaning is whatever meaning you give it. Based on priorities, and belifes ect.... For some, yes i may have none.

From past expiriences, I've discovered if you feel completely lost for meaning, find another person who thinks as deeply as you, and just being there for them will create a very strong meaning. You'll want to exist for that person.

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There is no "meaning of life"

timberlandko wrote:

However, if you wish to rise to a challenge, I submit this one:

Demonstrate objectively that faith be differentiable from superstition.

While searching around on A2K, I was looking for a new thread to visit, as a change of pace. I decided to explore the Philosophy forum. I wasn't in the mood for science or religion. So to answer your request, as I address the "faith" portion, it will be as a "confidence" in the unseen, rather than as a religion. In other words, I don't wish to delve into the in's and out's of scientific proof or religion.

Although we already know the meaning of the word philosophy, I'd like to begin by defining it.

With your cooperation, I'd like to remain within the confines of the definitions highlighted in red, because they specifically apply to my viewpoints, with respect to this thread.

______________________________________________

(referencing WORDNET DICTIONARY):

philosophy

Definition:

1. (n) a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
2. (n) any personal belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation; "self-indulgence was his only philosophy", 'my father's philosophy of child-rearing was to let mother do it"
3. (n) the rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics
______________________________________________

Now, let's notice...

faith

Definition:

1. (n) loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; "keep the faith"; "they broke faith with their investors"
2. (n) complete confidence in a person or plan etc; "he cherished the faith of a good woman"; the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust"
3. (n) a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
4. (n) institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"
______________________________________________

Compare faith to superstition:

superstition

Definition: (n) an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear

If you'll note, there is nothing in the definition of the word "faith" which says that it arises from ignorance or fear. That assertion therefore falls under the category of opinion.
______________________________________________
CONCLUSION: It is only one's opinion that faith (as in a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers) is superstition (an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear).

Dictionary definitions do not support the theory that faith is synonymous with superstition.
Therefore, faith is differentiable from superstition.

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Considering your intent seems to be to forward working definitions for purposes of objective discussion, you sure have tipped the hand in your favor with your selective and dishonest definitions.
Sneaky, but hardly clever.

dictionary.com wrote:

faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Quote:

su·per·sti·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spr-stshn)
n.

1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.
1. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
2. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
3. Idolatry.

As you can see, referencing a WHOLE entry for 'superstition' instead of just a snippet that supports your case should leave you with a very different conclusion.

However, although objectively synonymous they can be subjectively distinguished from each other, hence the need for two separate words.
Faith is 'correct' superstition. (in the mind of the believer)
Hypocrisy? Sure, but that is encumbent to the whole christian position.

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There is no "meaning of life"

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