LYING FOR JESUS

Most definately. "Christians" merely represent a system of beliefs. To represent something does not imply to become it. People are people no matter what. And you know what? There's a lot of arrogant christians out there in this world. I've met quite a few myself. I have been quite arrogant myself at times, I admit to my own shame... ack... What I have seen more often than not is that there's this idea that the only way people will hear it is if you beat them over the head with it, hoping someday it will sink in.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I mean A LOT. Why? Why do people do it? Why is it that "christiains" think it's ok to ridicule, mock, comdemn and hurt, people they say they believe Jesus died to save? I will never understand this. They contradict themselves with their actions. Why do they think the God they serve is pleased with this kind of behavior? Why? Because others do it first? I am miffed about this. Hmmm... don't know if I should keep rolling with this one... LOL Am I in trouble yet???? LOL

Eyep, is, I believe, the agreement indicator du jour!

yeah, thought he might be.

LOL here I am getting ignored again! Whoooooooooo! Just kiddin.

I just think if you say or even imply it you ought to back it up. That's all I'm trying to say here. Back it up. Please. Won't someone back up why they think the christians here are so arrogant? What is it that makes them so arrogant to you? I honestly want to know. I know why I think what I think. And I know what I think will ruffle some feathers. But dang it... I'm willing to say it at least... I'm not trying to start a christian bashing session here. I'm not out to hurt anyone intentionally. I'm just tired of everyone dancing around the issue...

Ahh well, I give up... I guess I'll just have to join the dance then...


Oh boy....

Personally, I don't think "the christians" here, en masse, ARE "so arrogant".


I think SOME of them are...usually, imho, the most ignorant ones, or the most fundamentalist.


Both on A2k, and in real life, I know of many christians who are the very antithesis of arrogant, and for whom I have the deepest respect and admiration.


I have major disagreement with the beliefs and traditions of the three middle eastern religions - judaism, christianity, and islam......but I would no more see all of their followers as arrogant than I would see all Americans or all Australians etc as arrogant.



I see the arrogant ones as arrogant because they have the belief that they are in possession of the truth, the light and the way, and that anyone disagreeing is doing the work of, or is ensnared by, the devil.

Also, some christians here have been very happy to attack other religions...especially islam....for ITS doctrine, and "silly beliefs" about what their holy book says, while using as evidence for why the islamic holy book is wrong, "and silly superstition", their OWN holy book!!! And failing to see a problem in this reasoning.



Again, this is SOME christians.



Actually, I wouldn't mind betting that there are wonderful people here, who are christians, but we do not know it, because they have no desire to trumpet their religiosity, nor try to push their beliefs.




Actually, arrogance per so bothers me little, as long as people are happy to consider that they may be wrong, and discuss in a reasoned way. (Hell, Craven who started this site is arrogant beyond belief, but will always accept that he is wrong when he is demonstrated to be.....and I can be BLOODY arrogant when riled). In saying this, I acknowledge that belief in the reasoned examination of beliefs is, in itself, an ethical belief, and ought to be subject to challenge!

I think people are reacting so strongly to some christians here partly because there has been, or it feels like there has been, a kind of christian assault on the site, by people determined to "spread the word".


Some of them have tantrums and such when they are challenged.



Also, with christian evangelicals crusading against the secular world, against separation of church and state, against science, against birth control and sexual health measures and so on, many people are feeling under attack by christians, and get VERY peed off when some christians are pleading discrimination and persecution, when they seem very ready to persecute others.


It all gets a little emotional in the trenches of ideology!

Thank you dlowan. I appreciate the response. That actually has cleared up some stuff for me. I hope it didn't sound like I was implying all christians here are arrogant... that wasn't what I meant at all. Most of the ones I've met I like. Actually I can't think of one I don't like. I just don't always agree with what people do, and I'll admit being a "christian" is a bit of a touchy subject for me.

I've been hurt a lot by the arrogance of some. No, I've been hurt the most by arrogant christians, and I'm still trying to get over it. I try not to classify people by labels, this is one of my great area's of struggle right now. I don't want to hurt anyone, but I'm tired of all the hoopla... ack... Though honestly speaking I can say that I haven't seen a lot of friendliness towards those who claim to be christians. I understand a little better now where that is coming from. Which is all I really wanted.

Guys I'm sorry.. I'm a hot head sometimes... I know... Wasn't trying to put anyone on the spot.

Hitler was very much a Christian and an avid supporter of the church. Many Catholic and Protestant Churches in Germany helped set the foundation for WWII and the atrocities to occur. Many Popes, priests and nuns supported Hitler's regime.

A few of Hitler's quotes:

A good one is this from Mein Kampf:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

Another popular one is this, from a speech in 1922:


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

13th December, 1941, midnight

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe
transubstantiation>....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

Sounds to me like Hitlers "religion" had a major turning point somewhere along the line... Or it was just political propaganda...

Or, he was an out and out madman, who used his charisma for his own political ends.

It's very easy to use the bible to support nefarious ends. Part of why, for a lot of us here, "because the bible said so" is not anywhere approaching adequate justification for a given position.

aahh yes I can definately understand that sozobe.

The lie more effectively controls the masses. Once again I remind you of these prophetic words:

Since you need some action... do you have any references to some of the many non-christians doing what I have colored red in your quote?

grrrr at you mesquite....

Figments?

What's your angle mesquite?

I think his question is straight-foward and above board--do you have evidence of non-christians doing what you claim, that is, taking parts of the bible out of context. Given the make-up of religious nut cases at this site right now, that shouldn't be too hard.

What a lame goddamned web site . . . i am not allowed to see page five of this thread . . . and i started the goddamned thread. If CdK decided to run off to school, start chaing skirts and let this place go to hell, he ought to have had the decency to have left it to someone competent to manage the place . . .

Ahhh backed into a corner once again. Dang it all.. There are things here I could quote... not sure if I'm so comfortable doing that though... it seems like I'd be hanging people out to dry... Of course if I don't I'm hanging myself out to dry, correct?

I was actually talking more about things outside of the forum. Which I can offer no proof for because it's just my word that things happened a certain way. Let me see if I can find the ones I've seen here... could take a little time though...