WHOPPERS FOR JESUS

Nope, you don't get special venues here in which you are entitled to stipulate that only adherents of imaginary friend superstitions may post.

Cliff Hanger Wrote:

Just think for a moment, think, don't react, and don't fall back on your bible-- What if you were denied the freedoms you currently enjoy, and take for granted, because of your personal preferences? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change.

Taking away someone's established rights is different than the rights not being established.

Momma Angel wrote:

Cliff Hanger Wrote:

Just think for a moment, think, don't react, and don't fall back on your bible-- What if you were denied the freedoms you currently enjoy, and take for granted, because of your personal preferences? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change.

Momma Angel wrote:

Taking away someone's established rights is different than the rights not being established.

You have not answered my question. Subterfuge. Condescending. Arrogant. Long-winded.

....Subterfuge. Condescending. Arrogant. Long-winded.

dlowan,

I would be more than happy to answer any question put to me. Do you have one in particular that you would like answered?

Not being huffy dlowan, just stating my stand. :wink:

Momma Angel wrote:

dlowan,

I would be more than happy to answer any question put to me. Do you have one in particular that you would like answered?

Not being huffy dlowan, just stating my stand. :wink:

Sure.

here's an interesting one from Amigo:

"Enlightenment takes time to catch up with some of us. Remember when women couldn't vote Momma? Do you enjoy your right to vote to deny another minority their rights?"

First of all, I was a bit put off at the enlightment takes time to catch up to some of us statement. I think that could have been left out, don't you? I am denying nothing to anyone. I do not get to vote for this, dlowan. It is not on the ballot and I highly doubt it ever will be here in Louisiana. I thought this was all just for discussion sake. I changed my position on this because I could understand how it may be denying someone's rights if I voted no on this issue if I were allowed to vote. So, I would abstain. I am sorry if that is not good enough for some. It is a compromise. It allows me to stick to my principles and I am not directly forcing my principles on anyone else.


a. Are you aware that christian bigots also considered they had scriptural instructions to deny women the vote?

Of course I am, however, I am not one of them. I do not believe women or anyone should be denied the right to vote or not vote if that is what they desire.

b. Are you aware that christian bigots also considered they had scriptural instruction to deny black Americans human rights?

Of course I am, however, again, I am not one of them. I do not believe anyone should be denied their human rights. I do reserve the right to what I think someone's rights should be, however. In this case, as I have stated, seeing both sides, I would abstain.


(There were, of course, many fine christian minds able to see beyond this stuff, and fight for human equality as there ar enow re homosexuality....very noteably the Quakers who risked their lives assisting runaway slaves).

And they are well within their rights to do so, just as I am well within my rights to feel as I do, just as you are well within your rights to feel as you do.


Why do you think that you, and numerous other christians, choose to adhere to the parts of the bible that condemn homosexuality, rather than the parts which enjoin you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbour as thyself, not go casting stones etc...?

I am afraid you would have to ask them, dlowan, as I can only tell you about my beliefs, views, and feelings. I feel my abstention from voting is the most fair and decent thing I can do in this situation. And, I have cast no stones.


Do you, by the way, support the vote for women?

Yes, I do.

Given that fine christian minds and hearts do NOT see the bible as supporting civil rights for gay people, what is your explanation for those of you who DO? What do you think is the difference between you?

My explanation is that I understand the Bible as I understand it and they understand it as they understand it. I cannot speak for them. I will not assume to think what the difference may be, as I just don't know for sure.

Oh, and re whoppers for Jesus.......do you consider that those of us who oppose your views are evil?

Do I consider those that oppose my views as evil? Wow. That's putting it right out there, isn't it? But, I will answer you honestly. No, I do not consider all that oppose my views as evil. I may consider some of the behaviors displayed as evil, yes. I think anytime anyone attacks someone else just for the sake of an attack, that is an evil act. If it is done out of hurt feelings, fear, etc., I would not consider it an evil act. I have made the statement that some posts seem to just drip with evil at times, I won't deny that.

dlowan

Of course, this:

"Given that fine christian minds and hearts do NOT see the bible as supporting civil rights for gay people, what is your explanation for those of you who DO? What do you think is the difference between you?"


was a typo, and was corrected in the post. MA quoted from the unedited post.

The post in MAs quote should read:

"Given that fine christian minds and hearts do NOT see the bible as forbidding such civil rights as marriage and ordination for gay people, (SUCH a joke, that one, considering how many clergy are gay, but nemmind) what is your explanation for those of you who DO? What do you think is the difference between you?"

To be honest with you dlowan, I feel like I am being baited. If I am in error, then I sincerely apologize. I told you that I would answer your questions and I will.

dlowan, I can only tell you what I believe the Bible says. It says that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God. I didn't think homosexuality was right before I became a Christian. The thought of it, quite honestly, turned my stomach. I cannot tell you why some feel that the Bible does not say it is wrong. I could guess, of course. But, I don't know the real reason why some think it is ok and some don't.

MA....again you avoid the meart of the question.

Forget about this voting furphy you have dragged in.

I am talking about your beliefs.

I aak the questions again.

Why do you think that you, and numerous other christians, choose to adhere to the parts of the bible that condemn homosexuality, rather than the parts which enjoin you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbour as thyself, not go casting stones etc...?

dlowan, it says in the Old Testament and the New Testament that this is wrong. I am trying my best to do unto others, dlowan. C'mon, give me a bit of credit, ok? I backed off my firm stance of flat out voting no to saying I'd stay out of it because I recognized someone else's rights were involved here. Why is that not good enough? Must I change my opinion completely before I am just left to what I believe or feel?

Given that fine christian minds and hearts do NOT see the bible as forbidding such civil rights as marriage and ordination for gay people, (SUCH a joke, that one, considering how many clergy are gay, but nemmind) what is your explanation for those of you who DO? What do you think is the difference between you?

I'm not sure what you mean by fine Christian minds and hearts here, dlowan. Do you mean fine in the respect that they don't agree with my point of view or fine as in what? I don't know what the difference is, dlowan. I really don't. There are so many different interpretations of things, as you well know. I only know things for sure for myself.

Why do YOU interpret the bible in this way.

I interpret it that way because when I read it, that's what I understand it to say. Just like I would read, "See Dick run."


So, you do not consider those of us who oppose your views as inspired by the "father of lies" against whom you are in a spiritual war?

dlowan,

And this is exactly why I am feeling baited, dlowan. I have made this comment to someone and it seems to have found it's way to the surface. That's fine. I made the comment. I stand by it. Yes, I believe there is a spiritual warfare going on. However, I don't know to what extent it is. And yes, I do believe that for some (and Doktor S, forgive me but you have professed yourself as a Satanist so I would have to say that you apply) there is a spiritual warfare going on. But, even if that is the case, it doesn't mean I have to be cruel or nasty to anyone because of it.

I have in private conversations said things about others in frustration or anger, yes. I won't deny that. It doesn't make it right, but I have done it. So, if there is anything else you want to ask if I think or have said or whatever, lay it out there, dlowan. I have no problem with addressing it.

Are you aware that christian bigots also considered they had scriptural instruction to deny black Americans human rights?

Of course I am, however, again, I am not one of them. I do not believe anyone should be denied their human rights. I do reserve the right to what I think someone's rights should be, however. In this case, as I have stated, seeing both sides, I would abstain.

dlowan wrote:

Are you aware that christian bigots also considered they had scriptural instruction to deny black Americans human rights?

Momma wrote:

Of course I am, however, again, I am not one of them. I do not believe anyone should be denied their human rights. I do reserve the right to what I think someone's rights should be, however. In this case, as I have stated, seeing both sides, I would abstain.

So, what I am reading by your statement, is that you believe that no one should be denied their human rights, but you have the right to determine what those rights should be.

Am I understanding this correctly?

No Phoenix, that is not what I am saying.

You turn right around and tell me that it is not what I am saying.

Actually, I think I would just commit suicide and not ever have to worry about this again.

Momma Angel wrote:

Actually, I think I would just commit suicide and not ever have to worry about this again.

I don't know what to say about your answer. I always thought that your faith was strongly pro-life. Are you saying that you would kill yourself rather than have to make a decision?

I think that the problem is that you have allowed your faith to overtake your rational faculties.

Nope, you don't get special venue here in which you are entitled to stipulate that only adherents of your way of thinking may post. More do as I say and not as I do? Now, why should I respect your request if you won't respect mine?